is this out of focus??

I sent my 203FE back to Hasselblad for digital back upgrade. After I got the body back, I just can't seem to get spot on focus. Their tech support say the mirror would need to be align for digital back. After I told them I just got the body back, they say the alignment was preformed. Anyway, they want me to take some sample image of a focus page.. See below.. do you see this being out of focus? Their tech support manager say the focus doesn't appears to be off.

 

Comments please.

 

here is an image I sent them also. Does the area I focus on seems sharp to you??

 

Did you send the entire rig; i.e. body and back in?

Yes, your test shots look backfocusing to me. Did you jump through hoops by using additional magnifiers etc., to nail your manual focus? - It is not unlikely that your eye vision exceeds mine, all I know: Doing my best to focus a wide open lens with an ordinary prism or WLF doesn't get me very far. - Have another person try the focusing too, if you can. That should count more than sharing one test picture with the rest of the Internet.

Both appear slightly backfocussed.

Thanks for the comments..

 

I am using a split focus screen and also a D matte screen. Both produce the same result.

 

When I first reported the problem to Hasselblad support, they say the focus screen not perfectly aligned with sensor plane (camera was for film) need body alignment, mirror alignment..

 

Than I told the support person that the camera was just in last week to perform digital upgrade and check for function which they charged me $600.00. They say, all those was done correctly and there is no problem. But still doesn't explain why out of focus so I say.

 

The come back was to take more image, especially with the focus sheet.. OK, no problem. Here is their reply.

 

>The images have been evaluated by my manager. He says the images look fine and the focus doesn't appear to be off. However, He said you can send in the >camera and digital back and we'll inspect everything free of charge. If the sensor alignment is off on the digital back, there would be a $145 labor charge.

>

>Thanks

>

>Anthony McCall

>

>Hasselblad Technical Support Representative

 

I was shock to see this reply from Hasselblad. Everyone I had shown these image to say back focus. I know it is not a lot, since I takes mostly close up of object, 7 or 8mm off is a lot. What is going on with these people?

 

Has anyone experience a shift in their support? I always thought they are an outstanding company. What had happens to them?

I am not a Hasselblad user. The offer you got by them sounds nice and fair to me. You can't blame their camera repair, if your back is off. As mentioned before: Sending in just one of the pieces supposed to play well together might have been a bit overly optimistic?

Linhof for example openly ask you to send in your two existing lenses together with your camera if you want them to cam a 3rd one, to work with the range meter. With Leica M it is an open secret that the most demanding lenses (50/0.95 & 1, 90/2...) are unlikely to focus perfectly with a random body, so sending them in together gets at least recommended around the Internet.

35mm & APS SLR makers entertain their customers with AF micro adjustment options these days and a fast RF lens making 3rd party ships the RF cam on user adjustable long holes...

All of that is about the same issue: An image sharp under pixel peeping conditions requires a whole lot of precision that can't be met by random components, since everything gets manufactured within tolerances that might add up towards the good or bad.

 

I'd have hope that investing the $145 they might be asking will fix your problem. - I can't judge their support. - I never dealt with them in the past, nor with any other major high end camera company. - TBH: I read worse things about others. While it is annoying that the support person you dealt with didn't start apologizing right on the spot, they don't sound unwilling to fix your stuff for a moderate charge. - I think I paid similar for re-fastening and readjusting of a dropped M8's RF element by a 3rd party.

The images look slightly back focused. But they are within the DoF, so that may be within their specs. You can certainly ask for better.

 

Did you test a film back?

 

What lens did you use? When I'm calibrating a screen/mirror, I spend a lot of time confirming that the back/front focus I see is the in the camera, and not me.

 

It is pretty standard for users to send in both the camera body and digital back together for calibration, as tolerances of opposite magnitude will result in what you see. Hasselblad even matched the back to the body for much of their H line.

Yes, the offer they made is fair.. that part I am OK with. I was more surprise to see they think the focus is good when everyone thinks it is off. That is the part I am disappointed with.

 

The digital back was pulled from a working 500 and focus was spot on. I was using the 203FE for film and it was spot on. I used both 80mm FE and 110mm FE lens, result is the same.. back focus.

 

Tom, how do you calibrate the screen/mirror? Is there some adjustment can be made?

Tell them to get someone with halfway decent eyesight to check the focus. You're being stiffed by that service centre, and they should make good the adjustment F.O.C.

 

"I was using the 203FE for film and it was spot on."

 

-How could you tell with film? Film has an emulsion thickness of several microns, therefore its focus can never be 'spot on'. Besides the fact that the film may not sit absolutely flat in the gate.

Edited June 20, 2018 by rodeo_joe|1

Tom, how do you calibrate the screen/mirror? Is there some adjustment can be made?

This is kind of complicate, and different for every camera - I've only worked on old film cameras (not just Hasselblads), which are more tolerant than digital.

 

For Hasselblads, you should use their jig (which I don't have yet). Otherwise you need a good reference lens (one with a known infinity focus) and a good target.

 

First you have to determine which part is out of alignment, the screen, the mirror or both. If both, you really need a jig.

 

The mirror has a stop adjustment, but before you do anything, you should determine if the mirror pads need replacement (foam pads that attach the mirror). Usually replaceing them is enough.

 

The screen on the old 500c's have 4 separate screws at each corner, which adjust the height of the screen. The latter cm's and 2000's have 4 adjustable seats that the screen sits on. You have to check infinity focus at the 4 corners and at the center. The optical service tool from Hasselblad make this relatively easy. Withoutm an infinity target and reference lens will work, but it will take you a while.

 

I can't stress how important it is to determine which part is out of tolerance first. Because turning a screw and putting something that is perfect, out of alignment, is really painful. I have worked on 1/2 dozen Hasselblad bodies with user-replaceable screens, and none of then needed the screen adjusted - that part seems to be quite stable.

 

Then, with a digital back, you would need to shim the sensor to that body - some early backs have adjustment screws at the 4 corners (like the screen).

 

I do this as a hobby, because I like cameras, especially medium format, and I like to see how they work. So I tend to do this with old beaters that are out of calibration, and no longer have much value. But I have gone into my 203fe for minor repairs.

Tom, thanks. I am sending the digital back in for IR filter replacement. I think they will check focus etc. After I get that returned, I will see what will happen. Without any tools, shooting in the dark is not a good thing.

 

Interesting about film.. good point.

Then, with a digital back, you would need to shim the sensor to that body

 

That's what I was thinking. The problem seems to be an "Infinity Focus" issue. Setting a digital back in it's correct position should be no different to setting a film plane in it's factory specified position. We don't do that with film of course, because film planes are set for film when the bodies are machined in the factory. However, I won't be taking for granted that the removable G back I'm fitting to a Mamiya Press Standard I'm customising at the moment will be exactly in it's correct position. I'll do the tedious infinity focus procedure to make sure it's right

 

So in effect, what I would do with a film back, I would also do with a digital back, adjust it for infinity focus, via some test shots, which silaskwok has done with his Hasselblad as per the OP photos. The precise fitment and position of that digital back is boiling down to differing opinions. It now requires a "buyer beware" attitude to get the problem resolved. The test shots are clear enough, someone at Hasselblad needs new glasses

Since Hasselblad USA can't tell the image is back focus, I did not send the unit back to them to adjust. What good is it to send it to them when they thinks everything is OK. Instead I sent it to B23 in Denmark. Jimmy did an excellent job. Here is the result.

 

Edited July 7, 2018 by silaskwok

Its August 2020 . I sent my 203fe to New Jersey to be upgraded to the cfv50c. It came back and is out of focus too . I tried swapping the dedicated focus screen from my 503CW that works perfectly with the CFV50c. Still nothing. I can get infinity but every other " focused" shot on the split screen is out of focus on the back. I fear this is even ruined the camera's ability to shoot film. I have just told HB USA of this mess. I am in Canada and cannot ship the CFV50c and the camera because I cannot get the insurance amount. Like $20,000 USD for both together. I wan them to fix this for free. Even ordinary postal shipping cost me $70. So now I have a $,000 body with a $800 (CDN) change that yielded a doorstop. I am not happy.

That is very unfortunate. Is the film back out of focus too?

 

However, I do remember back in the 1990's, Hasselblad recommended that you send in both the camera and the digital back to have it calibrated, because the tolerances for the film back (which go back to the 1950's) were not sufficient for Digital. This was back before they acquired Imacon. And even with the H system (when they closed the system), they required the backs be calibrated to the body for proper use.

 

My memory is fuzzy, but I think there were issues with having the V cameras properly calibrated for both film and digital - you had to pick one?

 

Fixes:

You can always use the live view to focus.

Send the entire kit to Hasselblad for calibration - not sure if NJ is the best place, I recall, they sent them to Imacon in Denmark back then.

Is the system front of back focused? You may be able to shim the screen to get it right, and that may still be within range for film.

 

Note that hi-res digital backs will show a lot of the faults that film can't see. Most people who use them (I have not) say that you cannot get critical focus with the screen, and you have to use the live view.

This is my first post. I have acquired a 203FE and a CFV50c. I need the modification for the 203FE for the CVF50c. Reading the problems with NJ has me very concerned. Imacon, B23 or any other suggestions would be appreciated.