I'll pass on RAW, except for Sushi!

Discussion in 'Casual Photo Conversations' started by Sandy Vongries, May 4, 2017.

  1. Fred, I suspected this is a setup, but as I do usually when replying to public forums, I don't just respond to the person, but to others who would be reading my post, and potentially benefiting from it. I now remember you telling a few pages back, not to continue with this discussion. I think that was a sound advice.
  2. Continuing with the previous discussion ...
    The only flaw IMO would be to shoot jpeg in such a situation. I know very well, Norman will say, it's a bad composition, uninteresting subject matter, not worthy of shooting even under ideal lighting etc. I totally disagree with him. But even if we assume that's the case, can this particular example be extended to infer that a good photo doesn't depend on blown highlights or clipped shadows to succeed? A photo is a sum total of every aspect, not just composition. In certain cases, some of the aspects like exposure could become less important, in others they can be critical. I don't buy the sentiment that photos in one category is superior than the other.
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  3. Sandy Vongries

    Sandy Vongries Moderator Staff Member

    No set up in the OP -- IMO nothing further to discuss on the original subject, it has run its course and beyond. One does or one doesn't!
  4. Sandy, I didn't mean you. You asked a honest question and shared your outlook. It is when people challenge others to post examples with the pretense of an open mind and learning attitude, only to emerge later to push their own agenda -- that's when it becomes a setup.
  5. Norman 202

    Norman 202 i am the light

    get a grip Supriyo. not agreeing with you isn't the same as pushing an agenda.
  6. It isn't, but you have taken it to a new level. You asked me to show a scenario that warrants shooting RAW, and I did. Anybody with a decent pair of eyes can see the benefits of shooting RAW from that example, but you pretended not to. Instead, you pinned on whether the image is modest or not, as if a good image cannot be made better through post processing. The point of that example was to show whether a shooting scenario warrants using RAW, not to make a modest image better using RAW. Whether the starting photo was good was beyond the point. Anybody with a logical mind can separate the two aspects, the technicalities and content.
  7. Sandy Vongries

    Sandy Vongries Moderator Staff Member

    Don't know if this is appropriate, but as the originator of this thread, it would appear to me that its usefulness has ended, It should be closed.
  8. Norman 202

    Norman 202 i am the light

    Eh? I acknowledged the benefits of shooting RAW when I said, in response to your question about why you posted it, to demonstrate how flaws can be corrected.The fact that I don't like the image or don't think shooting RAW made that much difference seems to have caused problems.
  9. I am very happy with the photos produced by my camera. Why should I edit them?
  10. Yes, sometimes you know you are in a difficult exposure situation and know you will depending on the extended lattitude raw will give you when you make the exposure.
  11. It has taken me most of the last ten years to bring consistently better results from raw in post, than from in-camera jpegs custom set for WB, color and DR. Now it's worthwhile because my eyes have been trained to see the difference. And it doesn't take as long to find satisfaction with an image. But those early years were sometimes frustrating. My own learning curve was the reason.
  12. If you are pleased with what you're doing, anything you're doing, you aren't trying hard enough or just don't care. :)
  13. Sandy Vongries

    Sandy Vongries Moderator Staff Member

    Ed, that sounds to like a sad way to live life -- nothing ever good enough and perfection, of course, impossible for us mere mortals. Frankly, to me, your statement is as much a load of bunk as claiming every image must come from the camera perfectly exposed and composed.
    Your right to live as you wish, mine, alonasmalok, and many others to pick a different path. IMO no way here to make converts, just unfriends.
    DavidTriplett likes this.
  14. "Ed, that sounds to like a sad way to live life -- nothing ever good enough and perfection, of course, impossible for us mere mortals"

    Ed, Edward to his mates likes to dot the i's and cross the T's.. I agree.

    There's two arguments here artist merit and technical performance...both are compatible. Raw gives you more flexibility and enables you to express your vision by adding a greater degree of control over your photograph. In other words a superior palate.

    Artistic merit does not depend on anything other than the Art. However, the greater the palate, the more flexible the expression of the Art becomes..
  15. If we believe that that raw only offers minor flexibility in our photographs....then in art/photography minor improvements are important.

    Look at the greats of Art and ask if even minor details were not important to them.
  16. [Beware: Endless loop ahead]

    Sandy, what if it's satisfying for someone to be unsatisfied?



    Seriously, though, for me, life is a balancing act consisting of varying degrees—at varying times—of longing, reaching, overreaching, achievement, satisfaction, resting, and then starting all over again.
  17. So, to be clear, yes, I am often pleased with what I'm doing and what I've done, which will sometimes include an element of the future, of where what I'm pleased about might take me next, of assessing what I've learned from this pleasurable experience and putting that into future endeavors. And, honestly, sometimes I am quite content to finish something up with a bit of a sense of longing propelling me forward, with a little dissatisfaction that nudges me to continue on to the next thing. Maybe, rather than pose life as a series of satisfactions and dissatisfactions, or pleasures and non-pleasures, there's a way to look at life as a process where each feeds on the other and contains elements of the other. In satisfying myself, there may always be a bit of dissatisfaction. Likewise, in being dissatisfied, I can find some satisfaction knowing that I can move forward.
    Supriyo likes this.
  18. I just leave my digital pictures on my cell phone.
  19. Over years my personal vision and preferences changes, software getting better, RAW is more flexible for processing.
  20. Rembrandt is thought to be a great artist, yet when his works are closely examined it is clear that he painted over many "mistakes" to improve the color or composition. Composers frequently rewrite entire sections of their works, with the possible exception of Mozart, whose manuscripts are nearly free of corrections. Mozart, you see, composed everything in his head, worked out the problems, before committing the music to paper. You could say that most inventors create their best work when the results fill a need not otherwise satisfied. That need may not actually be noticed by anyone else until they see the solution. Dissatisfaction drives art and invention.

    In my personal endeavors, recording, video and photography, I tend to quit fussing when good enough is good enough. That is a consequence of deadlines and billing cycles. That doesn't necessarily please me, and there is always the realization that I could have done better. Next time, maybe.

    One thing I have learned is to leave room for error, so that what must be fixed can be fixed.
    Glenn McCreery likes this.

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