Ilford HP5, FP4 and Pan F - what's their tonal range in f-stops ??

<p>Hello there,<br>

I'm a newcomer on this website (love it) and a relative beginner. First time post.<br>

I'm taking an Evening Class in Photography and we're using B&W film. We have been assigned a project and I'm learning lots.<br>

But I am understanding exposure and am currently learning about film and it's tonal range.<br>

I'd like to know for the above named Black and White Films, using normal processing techniques (not pushing the film in any way), what tonal ranges would these give me (from black to white) ??<br>

5- stops ??<br>

6- stops ??<br>

Or something else ??<br>

I've tried looking on the Net as well as on this site, but I've found nothing specific. And what I have found hasn't got any reference to back up the claim.<br>

Kindest regards,<br>

Jez</p>

<p>Go and look at the film spec sheets on the Ilford site for these films. Look at the Characteristic Curve. On the Relative Log Exposure axis, every 0.3 represents about 1-stop and your density will run up to about 2.0. These emulsions would tend to range between about 9 - 10 stops for Pan-F and 11 - 12 stops for HP5. This is also going to be developer dependent as well. However, also realise that through exposure / development techniques you could potentially stretch this out to about 17 stops.</p>

<p>From the dim recesses of my memory I recall a figure of 7 stops, given typical development. I know I have this somewhere in a book but I am in the middle of a major clearout at the moment and most of my books are in packing cases. As Craig says, this is dependent on development and can be stretched out considerably.</p>

<p>FP4+ is what I use almost exclusively for the Hasselblad. I would venture in the 7 category like Chris, but your development and agitation needs to be proper or else it will be less. I also highly recommend the book "The Negative" by Ansel Adams, there are many really fine books on traditional black and white, but this is still the "must have" if you really enjoy this stuff. As far as references to back up claims, start by reading the book cover to cover and it will clear any questions you have now and many years into the future.</p>

<p>Thanks Dave, I will look into that. I am re-discovering how much fun film photography can be and recently started reading about Ansel Adams. I really like his whole approach to picture taking.</p>

<p>Thanks Chris.</p>

<p>And thanks Craig to you (lots of information, some of which I'd need to look up !). I did take a look first on Ilford's site before I came on here. I didn't find anything, but I think you're right, there must be something on there, maybe I didn't look hard enough. BTW, 17 stops sounds enormous to me, I thought normal B&W with nothing special would give around 5, so 7 sounds pretty good to me (though, as mentioned, I am a learning beginner).</p>

<p>Kindest regards,</p>

<p>Jez</p>

<p>Depends upon lighting, development, etc. But any good negative film will give you 9-11 stops tonal range if properly done. The problem comes in printing, which will render 7 stops maximum. Both film and digital photographers struggle with this print limit.<br>

But have fun and enjoy shooting! I recently shot some Ilford Pan F in Very dim contrasty lighting. Developed in Rodinal 1:50 and was very impressed with the tonal range. Makes me wonder why I don't shoot this film more often.</p>

<p>Add a few more terms to your search (some imprecise) and you'll find much more written on the topic: "dynamic range", "illuminance", "luminance", "brightness", etc.</p>

<p>I'm not saying those are all appropriate terms to describe the information you're looking for, but those terms will turn up a few more relevant hits on photo.net and elsewhere around the web.</p>

<p>And it does depend on exposure and developing technique. Some b&w films are capable of recording far more than can be translated into print or via scanning.</p>

Here's a potentially useful link:

 

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/dynamic.html

 

There's a short list at the end that also illustrates nicely how development and exposure can dramatically change the available dynamic range.

<p>Jez, forget the 5,7,17 thing for now. It doesn't really line up that way. Once you get reading the different materials it will start to fall into place. An important consideration will be the difference between a textural range (more what my 7 was referring to, good negs to print) and a dynamic range (more what the 17 is, what the film is capable of). Then in discussions of the Zone System, there will be references to the full range, referring to the 0-10 steps. If someone has a better way to direct you, I'm sure they will as this all gets pretty complicated. You can also see in Janne's article link that in the chart, the TMAX is hitting 17-19.5 dynamic range much higher than some of the other films, the FP4+ I don't know the numbers relative to the chart but it would be maybe around 11 or so, perhaps someone else will know so you have a comparison.</p>

<p>Craig:</p>

<p>Wouldn't 17(!) stops result in a log of 5.1 total?</p>

<p>What film, developer, developing time - temperature, and technique would produce such a result? Have you done this personally?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>Thank you to EVERYBODY for such wonderful replies. I have read and studied each one carefully and things are falling into place (though I find myself digging more and more deeper into this subject - which is fun!).<br>

Russ, thanks for informing me that printing is 7-stops max. That's been noted.<br>

Lex, those are fantastic new terms for me to learn more about ('luminance' is a good one !).<br>

Janne, I took a look at that link, thank you. It was a real help.<br>

And Dave, thank you once again. You are so right. BTW. I have already ordered the book "The Negative" as you suggested earlier - can't wait to get my nose into that one ! </p>

<p>I have a book where it illustrates in a table what you are referring to; <br>

The Zone system<br /> (the full 11zones, zone 0= Pure Black, Zone X=Pure White),<br>

The Dynamic Range<br /> (effectively, the 'information' range, everything except Pure Black to Pure White),<br>

and<br>

The 'textural' range<br /> (Zone II through to Zone VIII).<br>

Once again, thank you all.<br>

Kindest regards,<br>

Jez</p>

 

<p>Good for you jez, hope you enjoy everything you do and have much success.</p>

<p>Steve Gledhill posted his results at the Large Format Forum here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=55797">http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=55797</a></p>

<p>You can easily make out the 18 stop range. He mentions the film and processing he did. Nothing fancy.</p>