Hasselblad X1D

Discussion in 'Medium Format' started by edward_ingold, Jun 22, 2016.

  1. Hasselblad unveiled a new mirrorless digital MF camera, the X1d. It uses a 44x33 mm, 50 MP sensor, and a new lens mount. Adapters will be available for H lenses, and possibly others. It is roughly the size of a Leica SL601, and not much thicker than a wallet.
    http://www.dpreview.com/news/1988725790/medium-format-mirrorless-hasselblad-unveils-x1d
    At $9000, the body is a relative bargain for a camera in this class. It is also weather tight. Expect an hands-on review at www.Luminous-Landscape.com in the near future.
     
  2. I think the sensor could have been bigger. But Hasselblad is already committed. Perhaps a competitor will step up with a bigger sensor that does justice to the term 'medium format'.
    However - it looks like it's no bigger than a mid-range DSLR, so the market for those is going to shrink further down the road, for those who don't need very long lenses. Most MF SLRs are also going to be redundant thanks to the X1D.
     
  3. Time we defined Medium Format! With film the smallest MF was 6x4.5 and no sensor is as big as this. Sadly there seems no prospect of developing a true (6x6 6x7 and larger) MF sensor - all the development money is being spent on lesser breeds with 35mm full frame quality catching them up (How about full 16bit Nikon). A true MF sensor would open up a distinct quality gap again?
     
  4. "not much thicker than a wallet"
    I laughed when I read that Edward! Not much thicker than your wallet before you have paid for it, but it's a lot thicker than your wallet after you've paid for it ;-)
     
  5. I guess if you need it you will know immediately. I find it a little hard to think that this system will be in many amateurs' hands when you can get 50MP and 42MP from Canon and Sony: particularly as they have many more lenses and very fast ones to boot, whereas here you have only 2 native ones at present. The price is not so bad, I suppose. I also agree that the sensor size it not what I would really call medium format, but the term has been "debased" with medium format digital. I assume the 45mm lens is roughly equivalent to 35mm in 35mm format?
     
  6. I laughed when I read that Edward! Not much thicker than your wallet before you have paid for it, but it's a lot thicker than your wallet after you've paid for it ;-)​
    Aha! Someone got the joke.

    Even at 44x33 mm, the sensor is twice the size of a full frame DSLR. Larger sensors have less noise and greater dynamic range for the same number of pixels. The cropping factor is 1.3, fairly typical for MF digital.

    MP don't tell the whole story. MF digital is inherently cleaner due to the larger size, and produces sharper results with lenses of similar quality to those for the smaller formats. From a practical point of view, my 16 MP Hasselblad gives significantly sharper results than my A7ii (24 MP), and approaches that of the A7Rii (42 MP). Sharpness is somewhat better than MF color film, far easier to use and more consistent in post processing. 50 MP would put MF digital over the top.

    The cropping factor dictates a shift in lens choices. Instead of 50/80/180, it's more appropriate to use a 40/60/150 kit. For landscapes, I'm more likely to use a 100 or 120 for the upper end. The initial set of lenses X1D is consistent with practicalities, especially if older lenses can be used with adapters.
     
  7. Got to wonder if Mamiya will ever develop something like this to replace the 7 II. A nice 6x7cm sensor and those lenses? Could be nice. Horribly expensive, but nice.
     
  8. Having seen the You Tube Hasselblad introduction for this camera, it looks like it could be the one that I have been waiting for. I wonder if the old 500 series Zeiss lenses will be able to be utilized with an adapter, and if so, how they will hold up with this 50mp sensor?
     
  9. No mention of using 500 lenses on their official site, only H series. How would you cock the shutter on those?
     
  10. in any event what you guys say is right but Im curious as to how a mf point and shoot will aid spontaneity because the mirror sucks. size will increase once they have to when people stop buying middle of the road cameras
     
  11. the mirror sucks​
    man, my bathroom mirror sucks too.....
     
  12. If Hasselblad introduces a high resolution, medium speed, relatively compact, 24-70 or 24-90 equivalent zoom lens, I'm good to go. The current lenses are a real limitation for me.
     
  13. Excellent news, and great to see Hasselblad innovating again. Hopefully with the well received H6D and CMOS backs, and now this, they've put the debacle of the "bling an old Sony camera and charge through the nose for it" era behind them.
    I think the sensor could have been bigger. But Hasselblad is already committed. Perhaps a competitor will step up with a bigger sensor that does justice to the term 'medium format'.​
    Mirrorless high-megapixel cameras are only practical with CMOS sensors (because of the "digital video" viewfinder).
    At present the only photographic medium format CMOS sensors larger than 35mm full frame are just three:
    • This Sony 50MP 44 x 33 mm sensor, used by Hasselblad, Leaf, Phase One and Pentax
    • The bigger Sony 100MP 54 x 40 mm sensor, used by Phase One and Hasselblad
    • The CMOSIS 37MP 45 x 30 mm sensor, used by Leica
    So it is possible that Hasselblad will introduce another mirrorless body in this series, with the "full 645" [almost!] 100MP sensor. The unknown is whether their new lens line can cover that format.
    I assume the 45mm lens is roughly equivalent to 35mm in 35mm format?​
    Yes. They have almost exactly the same diagonal field of view, give or take a fraction of a degree. The aspect ratios of the sensors are different, though (4:3 vs 3:2).
    Even at 44x33 mm, the sensor is twice the size of a full frame DSLR.​
    Check your calcs...44x33mm is under 70% bigger than full frame DSLR format.
    Still, that is significant in the digital world.
    Got to wonder if Mamiya will ever develop something like this to replace the 7 II. A nice 6x7cm sensor and those lenses? Could be nice. Horribly expensive, but nice.​
    Phase One own Mamiya, and as I said, currently use a sensor as large as 645 film in their digital backs.
    A 6x7 cm sensor is not on the cards though - and not just because, as you correctly say, it would be horribly expensive. The bigger issue is that there are few lenses and even fewer cameras extant to exploit its potential. The Mamiya 7 lenses were designed to be positioned very close to the flm, and the resulting steep angles of the emerging light beams will create havoc (peripheral colour shifts and pixel cross-talk) with a digital sensor.
    No mention of using 500 lenses on their official site, only H series. How would you cock the shutter on those?​
    Both H and V (CF) series lenses can be used on the H series SLRs. Hasselblad make a V (CF) to H adapter, which does cock the shutter. http://www.hasselblad.com/accessories/medium-format/cf-adapter
    This new camera, being mirrorless, gives them even more room behind the lens for adapters. If I had one, I'd probably not even get a Hasselblad lens for it. I'd just use all my Mamiya 645 glass on it. It also wouldn't surprise me if many 35mm format lenses, especially telephotos, can cover the 44 x 33 mm format too - and the thin mirrorless body would let them reach infinity focus.
    I expect Phase One to counter with something very similar, very soon.
     
  14. Since the CF adapter for the V is $1700 and the H adapter is about $350 would it really be worth it? For $2000 you can just buy the lens that's made for it unless you have a stable full of V-lenses.
     
  15. The H adapter for CF lenses has a knob or lever to cock the lens. I imagine something similar would work on the X1D.
    The two lenses for the X1D are surprisingly affordable. However only two have been announced, 45 and 90, with rumors of a 30 to come shortly.
     
  16. The H adapter for CF lenses has a knob or lever to cock the lens. I imagine something similar would work on the X1D.
    The two lenses for the X1D are surprisingly affordable. However only two have been announced, 45 and 90, with rumors of a 30 to come shortly. a 150 would make more sense.
     
  17. Another miss from Hasselblad. Agree with Kirk:
    http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.ca/2016/06/i-read-that-some-professionals-are.html
     
  18. Kirk Tuck has his opinions, but misses the point. Photographers will be trading their Hasselblads, Pentaxes and other MF DSLRs, not their Nikons and Canons. If $2K is "very, very expensive" for a lens, then he has never looked at something from Leica, much less an Hasselblad lens. Sony crossed that threshold with at least two of their G-Master lenses.
    I sense a "sour grapes" attitude, along with reverse-snobbery usually reserved for Leica shooters.
     
  19. I sense a "sour grapes" attitude, along with reverse-snobbery usually reserved for Leica shooters.


    Hilarious. Business selects for numeracy and Kirk can count. That's why he's still afloat. Another Hasselblad fail.
     
  20. Kirk is (suprisingly) negative on this one. However, I do agree with him. Like I said, if you need it you will know, but the idea that somehow this is a really exciting camera in today's world strikes me as highly optimistic. The press is short of exciting new cameras to talk about, so this will fit the bill until Photokina.
     
  21. It has wi-fi AND a touch screen. And everyone knows that Barney and Company prize those two attributes to a much greater degree than the boring stuff like: great color, high sharpness, beautiful tonality, etc.

    Kirk betrays his ignorance and bias in such passages. The X1D sensor has already been shown to have great color, high sharpness, beautiful tonality in several other models from different manufacturers (Phase One, Hasselblad, Pentax).

    If he actually tested the camera instead of dismissing it from his armchair, he'd know that.

    Heck, if he even read about the other cameras that use that same sensor, he'd know that.

     
  22. Ray, you beg the question: have you tested it? What makes you think that Kirk has not considered MF? He is a pro after all and was a 'blad user in the past.
     
  23. I tried it today from B&H. It was really a good camera. Any questions if you ever wonder?
     
  24. Benjamin - How could B&H have an X1D when it has not yet been released?

    :) ...MomentsForZen (Richard)
     
  25. Just saw that some of the other USA stores were advertising that they would have demonstrations of the X1D over the
    holiday weekend and next week. You folks are so lucky. I can't see one making it to Australia to put on show, but I can
    hope and dream !

    No specific questions for you Benjamin - but perhaps you could summarize your thoughts? Are you going to buy one? If
    so, what type(s) of photography will you use it for?

    :) ...MomentsForZen (Richard)
     
  26. Richard/ Well it is quite revolutionary mirrorless medium format camera. Because
    1. It uses only leaf shutter. No shutters in camera body. So the body can be smaller without the mechanical shutter which is quite big and leaf shutter provide quite sound and better exposure method due to its mechanism.
    2. Very light and very small. I wished to see RF style medium format camera and here it is. Pentax 645Z was a quite portable camera compare to other companies but now it does not.
    3. Build quality is awesome. It's made of aluminum while others are using plastic.
    It uses only contrast auto focus but still quite faster than DSLR.
    noise quality is nice that I can see a lot of detail at the highest iso without any issues. Yeah still acceptable and useful.
    It support UHS-2 and USB 3.0 C type. This is the first camera using USB C type ever(much faster and superior than any other USB except for thunderbolt 3)
    touch screen works like a smart phone
    mode dial is quite unique. You can push the dial in and out
    It has nikon hot shoe mount
    Can shoot 400 pics and operate at least 4 hours.
    Well, I can not recommend this for street photographer due to AF speed and shooting speed unless you prefer to use manual focusing.Bascially, it's for photographers who use flash equipments.
     
  27. Hi there again Benjamin.

    Thank-you SO MUCH for your comments. It is so much better to get the view of photographers such as yourself - so
    much more authentic and realistic than most of the material that is out in the various websites/blogs/forums.

    Really appreciate it. My immediate reaction is to "want one" even more. But my logical reaction says to wait for an X2D to
    be developed and released - history says that the 2nd generation of a new line of cameras is far more solid. Also, by
    then, the range of native lenses should have expanded. Now, I just don't know whether emotion or Logic will prevail !?!

    :) ... MomentsForZen (Richard)
     
  28. my logical reaction says to wait for an X2D to be developed and released - history says that the 2nd generation of a new line of cameras is far more solid.​
    generally, this would be true, except for the fact that the 50mp Sony-designed sensor was already a known quantity, having previously been used in the Hasselblad CFV50c and H5D. There's an interview on DPReview where Hassy execs explain the ease of product development due to this. So i think its really a question of whether they got things like the UI and touchscreen capabilities correct. While Sony and some other manufacturers' approach has been to use 1st-gen buyers as beta testers, and correct the flaws of new bodies in subsequent iterations, I don't think Hasselblad had that same luxury. Given their financial problems and narrow core constituency, they needed X1D to be a knock-it-out-of-the-park grand slam, or see their window of opportunity for continued relevance begin to close. After all, the CFV50c was supposed to represent a rebirth for them, but it mostly just languished on the shelves as Pentax forged forward with the 645Z and Leica attempted to modernize itself. Had that been a completely successful product, i dont think the X1D would have had much impetus to be developed. But given that it was developed, it's clear that "revolutionary" is a starting baseline for it. It's also got to be a fairly complete release in and of itself, because who wants to invest that kind of money into a not-fully-realized system? The X1D will have to be successful for there to be an X2D, and if there is one, it probably wont be until the ability to put on-chip PDAF into the sensor is realized. Obviously, no camera today is future-proof, as technology keeps advancing, but at this price point, it's not realistic to ask customers to buy something which will be obsolete in a year or two.
     
  29. Hi there Eric.

    I would agree that Hasselblad have a good understanding of the 50MP Sony sensor. I hope that they go for quality
    improvements on future sensors rather not than increasing the MP count - my shooting technique and the nature of the
    lenses would make it hard for me to benefit beyond 50Mp in resolution terms.

    2 definite and 1 promised lens is a small native inventory to jump to right now. I have a stack of V-series lenses, but the
    thought of V-H and then H-X converters would ruin the beauty of this X1D body !

    I would think it unlikely that we would see other manufacturers develop "native" lenses in the next 12 months. My guess
    would be a max of 5-6 native lenses bu the end of 2017. I would be still betting on an X2D (logically ;-) by then.

    Oh the agony of it!

    :) ... MomentsForZen (Richard)
     
  30. I don't know, but I got the feeling that you can't use longer lenses with this, such as a 150mm or longer. Hassy really didn't
    say anything. I'd love to slap on my old 3 foot 500mm CF lens, but that won't happen!
     
  31. The more that I have seen and read about this camera have helped me to set a personal goal to get one. But without fail, I will try before I buy.
     

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