Getting Neopan 400 to be more like Neopan 1600

<p>I kneel before the elders of the photo.net tribe and cast the sacred yarrow bones of G'thang as I ask....</p>

<p>Has anyone some real-life suggestions for how to push Neopan 400 two stops and have it look more like Neopan 1600? On the shelf I have D76, and HC110. I think I want more midtones than I'm currently getting with the data-sheet D76 time (stock, 13.5 mins at 20 Celcius).</p>

<p>In answer to the the obvious question of "<em>why not just use Neopan 1600?</em>" (see, I'm way ahead of you here) let's assume I just don't have it, and can't get any more.</p>

<p>Hmm. Assuming Neopan 1600 is actually around 640, that would make it a 1 1/3 push. I don't know how you develop it, but I'm assuming you are using the same developer. So... I'd start with that same developer, expose Neopan 400 at 1000, and develop for a 1 1/3 push. </p>

<p>I usually see the figure of add 20% to your time for a one stop push. You'd obviously want to fine tune from there. But maybe add 25%-ish to your time for developing at 400? </p>

<p>I've heard different numbers tossed around for Neopan 1600's real film speed. So take the 640 with a grain of salt. Also, those fast films are designed for pushing, meaning they have lower contrast than normal films when developed at their true speed. However, that seems to apply more to TMZ and Delta 3200 than Neopan 1600 - whenever I see it shot at 1600, it's pretty dang contrasty.</p>

<p>Hi Tim,</p>

<p>I think you're way ahead of me here!</p>

<p>I shot both Neopan 1600 and Neopan 400 at ISO1600 the other night. I developed both of them (approximately) as directed by the Fuji datasheet:</p>

<p><strong>For the Neopan 1600: Kodak D76: 3:1, 17 mins (datasheet: 15.25 mins) 20 Celcius</strong><br>

<strong>For the Neopan 400: Kodak D76: stock, 13.5 mins @ 20 Celcius</strong></p>

<p>The hilights are (roughly) the same, but the 1600 has more in the mid-tones. Assuming I'm sticking with an ISO of 1600, what can I differently for the Neopan 400 in the development stage?</p>

 

<p>"The hilights are (roughly) the same, but the 1600 has more in the mid-tones. Assuming I'm sticking with an ISO of 1600, what can I differently for the Neopan 400 in the development stage?"</p>

<p>I suppose it's the difference between a 400 film and whatever the Neopan1600 is. You could try one of the developers reputed to be good for a little extra speed, like Microphen.</p>

<p>According to the curves in Fujifilm's pdf files for these two films, the Neopan1600 is 2/3 of a stop faster than the Neopan400, so if you accept the box speed of the 400, then the Neopan1600 is 640.</p>

<p>I think the problem is that you are pushing the 400 more than you are pushing the 1600. If you develop the 400 more than you are, then the highlights are going to blow out, but the midtones should get a bit lighter. You wont get anything more in shadows. But if you really want the midtones lighter, then give it more development. Run off a roll, and develop a third of it with 10% more time, a third with 20%, and a third with 30%. I'm guessing it won't be what you want though because your highlights are going to start going nuts at some point, and your shadows are still going to be black.</p>

<p>That's why I suggested to push the 400 less. Try it at 1000 instead of 1600. Then you're doing a 1 1/3 push from 400, very similar to the 1 1/3 push that the 1600 is actually getting at 1600. Reduce the development some on the 400@1000 until the highlights are where you want them, and the midtones should look better than 400@1600. You'll have a bit more in the shadows too.</p>

<p>By the way, I totally missed the bit in your original post about pushing the 400 two stops. Haha. No, I don't think you can make 400 pushed +2 look the same as 640 +1.33, even if the films were exactly the same in all other respects, which they probably aren't.</p>

<p>Pushing 2 stops is easy, you just have to take time; dilute stand development. Try 50-60 mins at 1:100 for HC110. A 2 stop push is not a big leap and you will not drop off the edge of the earth (they say it is round).</p>

<p>The dilution will lean more toward finer grain. The standing will lower contrast and protect the highlights. If you want even finer results, try 1:200 at 120 mins. HC110 is pretty linear on dev times.</p>

<p>If you experience bromide drag, agitation near the middle will resolve this. I tend to put more soup in the can than I need; develop 1 roll in a filled 2 roll can. This keeps the developer volume up while keeping my ratios favourable. My times are based on scanning, which I prefer mid-tone rich as a starting point (aka thin negs). Add about 20% if you intend to wet print.</p>

 

<p>Peter is right. 2 stops isn't the end of the world. It just might not look like a shot that was only pushed 1 stop. </p>

<p>Depending on where you are located, you might also look into other 400 speed films and push those 2 stops. Tri-X usually does alright at 1600. You can do a convincing 1250 in Diafine. And (I've not done it) but I've read that people are really liking the new T-Max 400 at 1600.</p>