Editing (Your Process)

I know many of you have your own websites and/or have exhibited in

galleries. Obviously editing is an important part in showing your

best work. Editing is something I don't do at all on PN as I

admittedly post some mediocre work or near misses looking for

feedback.

 

Anyway I'm planning on building a website and would also like to

start working on a portfolio book and I'm curious what thought

processes you have used to edit your work. Do you do it solely on

your own, do you seek input from other photogs, or perhaps even pay

for a professional portfolio review?

 

Just curious.

Jenna, I would find a photographer who's work you admire and ask them to edit your photos. By picking someone you admire, you will be choosing someone you respect and will listen to. You want someone who will be honest with you, and not just tell you what you want to hear.You also need to find a person who knows how to communicate what they like, and don't like in your photos.Here at the paper the begining of the year is contest time,all the photographers shop their portfolios around to each other to get a freash pair of eyes looking at each other pics. You then can choose to include or reject what they tell you ,using your gut.

I post what I want to on my photoblog and website. Never asked anybody what I should. However, having said that, if I posted it to Photo net (or else where) and people liked it a lot, well, it definitly gets put on the website then ;o)

 

But, on the other hand, if they don't like it and I do, it gets posted on my website.

 

If I was using the website to generate future clientel, or future sales, I might be a little more critical..........but, I don't. It's all for me to show people what I do.

 

does that mean I dont obsess about what I should put on..........of course not. Takes me a long time to decide. Adding, deleting what is going to finally get put on. sometimes I never really decide, and just say, thats it, its going on.

<i>or perhaps even pay for a professional portfolio review?</i><p>

Excuse me, I'm about to vomit.

Thank you both for the input.

 

One reason I'm asking this question is because I will be a part of a gallery exhibition, which is a first for me. It's a group show and I will display only a few images, but I would like for people to be able to see more of my work. Also I would like to start developing a larger portfolio book that I might use to get into future shows. Eventually I would like to do some environmental portrait work and perhaps market that as well on the site, but for now it will be personal work.

 

Michael,

 

Your idea is a good one. I don't think popular ratings here are necessarily a good gauge, but input from photogs shooting in similar genres would probably be helpful. Also with street/doc stuff it's often more about a body of work rather than individual images, but that's where the editing becomes difficult. I will likely display other work, but for now I'm primarily interested in showing some street/doc work.

 

Thomas,

 

Yes I think a photographer can get attached to certain images especially if they have some type emotional involvement in a particular photo. I know I do this and may like certain mediocre images just because I somehow connected with the subject. But if no one else does, then it's probably a reject.

 

And yes this will be more than blog.

Professional Portfolio reviews can be extremely helpful, especially if you know where you

think you know where you want to go with your career.but need help in seeing your work

the way a photobuyer will look at it and in uncovering your strengths and weaknesses, I

doubtthat she still does it anymore, she may not even be alive , but back in 1984 I spent

about three days wit hHenrietta Brackmann in New York City and it was extremely helpful

for my career. Ms. Brackmann helped shape the careers of several photographers who

went on to bigtime (and I mean hugely successful) commercial careers -- most notably

Pete Turner.

 

Henrietta Brackmann wrote a very useful guide to editing and presenting one's work

called "The Perfect Portfolio". Most of the images are dated now --styles change --and the

technology has obviously moved on but the basic editing workflow she lays out in the

book, and her tips on what to look for when evaluating an image are still valid

There are enough knowledgeable people right here on photonet

and on the street forum to give informed feedback. The idea of

posting here and watching for reaction is a good way to go. This

is exactly why I think people should say what they think on w/nw

threads if their reaction to a photograph is honest. It doesn't do a

photographer much good if he posts what amounts to a

mediocre piece in the grand scheme of things and gets 2 or 3

way to go's from his feel good buddies, while people who don't

think much of the image politely keep their mouth shut.

Ray,

 

Well I understand where you are coming from, but some people do find it helpful. I think Andy K. has done this.

 

Ellis,

 

Basically my attitude is "I have nothing to lose" so why not see if anyone is interested in my work. Unlike most here I don't have a professional career. I temp, do meaningless office work, wait tables, whatever I can do to survive. If my work sucks then I'm not losing anything. If I do generate some interest then good for me. I see a lot of great work that is never pushed which is a shame. I also see many mediocre photographers earning a living. Probably good business people. I feel I have lots of room to grow (as most photogs do) yet I don't want to look back twenty years from now and ask "what if". I always regret those things I didn't do more than the things I did do, even if I failed, if that makes any sense.

<i>There are enough knowledgeable people right here on photonet and on the street forum to give informed feedback. The idea of posting here and watching for reaction is a good way to go. This is exactly why I think people should say what they think on w/nw threads if their reaction to a photograph is honest.</i><br><br>

 

Honest criticism is always useful if people remain civil. I don't have a problem with that. I think the overall talent on this forum is pretty high, but I agree not every image posted is great. Perhaps some people are not looking for input though. And if so I think it's important to keep this forum civil. For example "your photo sucks" isn't exactly useful. Comments about composition, tones, lighting are. Maybe the subject matter is not interesting enough. Or perhaps an image would be stronger if better post-processed (darkroom or PS). And sometimes people do deserve to be complimented if they show a great image. Yes it's partly subjective, but if I wished I took a certain photo I usually say something.

Yeah, I imagine it works for some people, just not me, at this

point in my life. Had my fill of art school I guess.

 

Still, you can't trust one person's assessment of your work, there

has to be more than that. You have a good eye, you must have

some idea. Ultimately you have to decide what your work means

to you. Unless all you're aiming at is commercial success.

Oh sorry, my first sentence right there was about professional

portfolio review....

Ray,

 

No art school here! But I agree it would be more useful to do a "workshop" type portfolio review where several people could view your work.

 

As for what I'm aiming for? Nothing specfic at this moment, just hoping to streamline a portfolio and go from there. Using that to submit to more galleries. And eventually develop a portfolio for environmental portrait work as a possible way to make a bit of money. My street/doc work is more personal and obviously I don't expect much monetarily from that. Just something I enjoy doing and if I can get it shown in galleries and get a bit of exposure, great. If not, no biggie.

 

What I may do is put a bunch of photos I'm considering into one folder or presentation and see if anyone here has any opinion. In, out or maybe.

Also, consider making some small books, with say, 20 to 40 pix. The process of putting

one together, selecting pix that work well together on left-right page spreads, as well as

keeping an eye on getting a rhythm going (and maintaining it) from beginning to end to a

theme, will help tons.

 

Over the last few months I've done several. Nothing like holding a book in your hands

flipping through the pages to get you thinking about your pix, separating the weak from

the strong. In the end you have a compact portfolio that's easy to show others. And it's a

tangible record of your work which you can view and make further decisions about your

pix as you go through it from time to time.

You're probably aware, but in all of this it's important I think to

keep looking at photographs- all kinds of photographs, all the

way from Niepce through your own family photos to

photojournalism past and present, present day galleries, and

anything else you can find.

Peter,

 

I agree. I go to virtually every photography exhibit I can find (from the well known to the unknown) and it always frustrates me to see interesting work from an unknown artist and not be able to find more work elsewhere. Most group exhibits only show 2 or 3 individual photos so it's hard to get a good gauge on the work.

 

Culling? Yep that's hard for me as I don't have the distinct style of say someone like edmo.

 

Brad,

 

I recently bought a portfolio book that can hold up to fifty 11 x 14 prints. Since I'm not yet printing my own work (I have a crappy printer), it would be quite expensive to fill it up. I like your idea of a smaller book and from there I can get a better feel of what works or what doesn't work. I could get a better idea on what prints look good before I spend the money to print them large. Finding a decent local lab (I tried several) was expensive enough.

<i>. . . I think it's important to keep this forum civil. For example "your photo sucks" isn't exactly useful.</i><P>

Actually, I think "your photo sucks" is just as useful a critique as "what a great shot!" The reason to refrain from such negative comments is because it makes discusssions less civil and there are other, more productive ways of providing criticism, not because it lacks any value.<P>

For my own work, I get opinions from just about anyone who's willing to take a look at my shots. I think it's a bad idea to only get opinions from other photographers--some evaluate images based on senseless "rules" they've learned, and some evaluate them based on how they would have taken the shot rather than keeping an open mind about how you have taken the shot. These can be useful perspectives, but they can also give you a distorted view. Non-photographers typically have a much fresher perspective about whether an image works or not.<P>

You mentioned you go to a lot of galleries. After you've put together a couple dozen good shots, see if the gallery owners are willing to take a look at them. They're usually happy to check out new work.

I stick all the ones I like as well as the maybe ones on the wall.

Keep them on there for a few weeks. Look over them routinely

and finally edit them down and show those to mostly friends and

peers.

This is all old argument blah blah...some people can self edit, some can't. Some need a

shrink to show them what there subconcious is doing others can't escape it. At the end of

the day you decide what to put up. But it doesn't hurt to get a second opinion especially

from a pro, you may learn something about your work and your self..or not.

Hi Mike,

 

You're probably right, saying "your photo sucks" is probably just as useful as saying "great shot." I know what I like when I see it and sometimes I can't really explain why so I just say great shot. When I see something from another photographer that doesn't work for me I usually know why even if I choose to say nothing. It's much more difficult doing this with my own images.

 

 

Non-photographer evaluations? I never really thought of that but it makes sense. I'll try that too. And I agree some photogs look at other photogs work and only evaluate based on how they would have shot it, or based on strict adherence to certain photographic rules, or even what camera was used.

 

Ray,

 

I've only been posting here for a few months, but I know you've been advocating more critiques. I think most w/nw threads are more for sharing photos on a theme, but maybe we could start a once a week "street critique" thread where interested parties could post a couple of images they are seeking input on. Probably not our strongest photos but those we are "iffy" on. Those not interested in critiques wouldn't have to post and those who are can. Just a thought. I know I would be more willing to offer feedback if I felt it was wanted.

Well its hard to really take off on a W/NW thread as it tends to break the flow.. u might want

to say something, but there's not much more room than for it rocks or it sux.. Then some

blokes tell you to keep your opinion to yourself.. I'll just say it for me, anybody wants to

praise, knock but more importantly make an attempt at some constructive criticisim of my

work its always appreciated even if it stings.

The process begins at the contact sheet. There are usually one or two shots that jump out at you. Print these up to 10x8. When you get a dozen or so at 10x8 then set them up around the room at look at them. I find it helps to 'live with them' for several days. The stronger one will become apparent. The weaker ones also. Be prepared, as Ezra Pond said, to "Slaughter your darlings".

Ok Jenna, I'll explain myself a little more. Technically, I know when a pic of mine sucks, and I'll be the first to admit it. I still may show them here, but that's just to see what people will say. But, I'm like that. I ask questions just to here what people will say. I'm not really interested in their answer per say, I just want to hear what they will say. More of wanting to hear something I hadn't thought of, than a critique.........does that make sense?

 

The following is VERY general. When I go thru the latest batch of my pics, I usually end up with maybe 5% that strike me immediately as having potential. They get processed immediately and put into a slide show......actually the film strip display of the Microsoft Explorer "detail" option....and they get looked at for awhile......days, sometimes weeks.........adding and deleting as I see fit....so, all in all I may have 10% that I've used from that batch. Now, mind you, I also go back to that batch maybe 2 months down the road and look again. 50% of the time I find a few more that now, after not having looked at them at all, look better than before. Time with a pic really gives me an indication of just how good it is. It's one thing to get immediate liking of your own pic, it's another if it makes it a week of constantly looking at it.

 

If it survives a week of constant review, it gets posted at least to my photoblog.......if I still like it being shown in the photoblog, then it gets tagged as an "add" for the next revision to the actual website. which unfortunately doesn't happen as much as I want, even with using DW.

 

and btw, there are a whole bunch that i think are good that never do get shown.............that's called laziness

 

As Mike said above..........during this whole time, I post it here for photogs, I show them at work to the totally artistic impaired....heh......they hate my blur stuff btw, so when they say one of those is pretty good, I KNOW I have a winner.......;o)..........and then I have my 25 year old son, and his friends look at them for another set of eyes, in a totally different age group (who love my blurred stuff, btw ;o)

 

....And I take heed of all those responses........BUT

 

when push comes to shove, I post what I want. It's my stuff, I get the final say so...........and I honestly believe that even if I would ever hire someone to critique and edit my stuff professional, I'd fight with them on certain pics.

 

There are a few photogs here on photo net that I regard extremely high in the editting abilities.........and "it sucks" from them is extremely helpful, because they only use it for my stuff when it really actually does suck. You have to take their photography in account though when you do this........which is why a lot of us question the critique of those that do not post.......there's nothing to base the validity of their opinion on

 

And THAT is actually the bottom line (once you get past basic technique).......OPINIONS.........they are all opinions........just like yours. Why shouldn't your opinion of your own ideas, your own creations, be just as viable as anybody elses. If you look at the history of art, it was always the "new ideas" that received the loudest and most damning critiques........and some of those have become the Master's work of today.

In relation to Jenna's suggestion to start some "street critique" arrangement here, may I suggest that any member of P.Net can send their photos to Jeff (www.Spirer.com) so that Jeff can, at his discretion that we obviously trusted generally, post those that satisfy some minimum requirements in a special thread every one or two weeks (depending on how popular it is), with the identities of all the photographers not disclosed, and all of us are invited to give honest comments.

 

Make it clear that only comments on the photos shown will be tolerated, and all comments on other's comments will be deleted (so as to really encourage honest comments). However, very harsh comments without any implication of personal attrack will be allowed.

 

Just a suggestion and what I think will be useful and interesting.

 

****

 

To Jenna - I think you can trust your eye and prepare a profolio first, and then use it and see what it turns out. FWIW - you have good eye and you are one of the photographers here I want to ask for opinion in relation to my photos.

Just to say that the idea for the thread about the anonymous photos and the critiques I find it to be very good. Also, Jenna, I am very glad that you will make a website and I believe that you have some very good photos. I would advise you to just go ahead and select the ones that you like the most to make a website. After this first step, as things will progress you can ask about advice from others that you consider them to be better than you (maybe proffessional). My only advice would be to limit yourself and gather only a small number of photos that you really consider to be your best.

Actually, I like Jenna's idea, maybe a once a week critique session. Put a photo up and people can discuss it. I mean you can do that now by labeling the photo with Crit: But maybe creating a space for that process on a group participation might be productive. The thing, looking and discussing a single photo out of context of other photos it may be related to in a sequence is a lot different that editing a series or for a portfolio. Those processes are more time consuming. I'm like Jenna, I do not seriously edit my PN work. This is my way of sticking stuff on the wall and looking at it. Because I like to have material on line to respond to a thread, I tend to put up anything that might be interesting at all. I've been thinking alot about doing a serious editing and sequencing of my photos, maybe for my own site.