Developing tilt/shift system for 35mm digital camera based on 4x5 large format view camera

<p>I have created a tilt/shift adapter for a 35mm camera based on Cambo master PC 4x5 view camera. It accepts virtually any meduim format lens , larger format will work as well. The whole project cost me less than $400. <br /> Hope my experience will be interesting to a studio and architectural photographers..<br>

<img src="http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/tilt-shift-system-for-35mm-digital-camera-4.jpg" alt="" width="600" height="831" /><br>

Here is the whole story on my blog:<br>

<a href="http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/2009/10/how-to-developing-a-tiltshift-system-for-35mm-digital-camera-based-on-4x5-view-camera/">www.akelstudio.com/blog</a><br>

So, what do you think, guys? Waste of time and money or worth it?<br>

Alex Kolsokov</p>

<p> </p>

<p>If you have a precise, stable and accurate shift and tilt, and your lenses give you large and CA-free image circle, you're fine, although by no means unique. <a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/canon-view-camera.html">http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/canon-view-camera.html</a><br>

I personally find such contraptions cumbersome to use in real life, esp. outside.</p>

<p>Your solution would be great for long lenses, but impractical for anything approaching wide...even with a bag-bellows, it'd be impossible to achieve infinity focus with the camera design (not to mention finding a 20mm lens that is practical for your camera design...). A good beginning though...and if you like long lenses, it's perfect.</p>

<p>Eric,<br>

let me not agree:-).<br>

If I'll use a meduim format lens, something like 35mm Mamiya for 645 and will stitch a few photos created by moving camera back side by side, I would have exact photo you can expect from meduim format, with resolution of 44 Mpx (1Ds canon used). See my explanation in the article.<br>

But you are right, no way I can get it in one photo.. it;'s like 1.8 crop factor!<br>

As fo infinity focus, why not? Remember, I am going to use only medium or large format lenses, where the distance between lens and sensor are much longer then on 35mm cameras.</p>

<p>I'll post some photos once I'll get 35mm mamiya lens..</p>

 

<p>Michael,<br>

Yes, i've seen that link before. It's one that inspired me.<br>

You are right, I do not think I will use it outside. It should be great in a studio though.</p>

<p>Alex</p>

<p >I'm extremely impressed. When I wanted a cheap TS solution for my Canon system I simply bought a Mirex TS adapter and two Mamiya 645 lenses. However, It's a much more expensive and much less adaptable solution than yours. Kudos.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Happy shooting,</p>

<p >Yakim.</p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

</p>

<p>But Alex, you could have just <em>bought</em> a Cambo Ultima 35 kit (for <em>only</em> 10 times the money)! Nice work!</p>

You should probably get more movement than the measly 11mm those lenses offer, but where exactly are the bellows ?

<p>Paul, Never heard of it. Are you taking about this:<br>

http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CB40191K2/ ?</p>

<p>I was looking at this: http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CB4600K1/ .. But I mine was still less money and more interesting to do..</p>

<p>The bellows is here:<br /> <img src="http://www.akelstudio.com/tmp/tilt-shift-system-for-35mm-digital-camera-9.jpg" alt="" /><br>

<br /> BTW, I have much more photos in the <a href="http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/2009/10/how-to-developing-a-tiltshift-system-for-35mm-digital-camera-based-on-4x5-view-camera/">blog </a> article.<br>

Will get some test shoots from it this weekend, hopefully.</p>

<p>Hi Alex,<br>

Yeow that's pretty impressive. I started my photographic career using nothing but view cameras. You're invention, although very impressive, is not unique. I believe Nikon or Canon had an adapter for this years ago. I'm sure you're also aware that the front movement of a view camera is basically for greater depth of field and shifts in field of vision. It does very little if anything at all for perspective control. Perspective control is done through the shifts, tilts and swings of the back of the view camera.</p>

<p>friej</p>

<p>Alex, this might interest you :</p>

<p><a href="http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/KI_Monobar.html">http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/KI_Monobar.html</a></p>

<p>Ilford marketed the K1 Monobar from 1958 to 1965. Its high price in the world of camera collecting shows it sold only in small numbers.</p>

<p>Thank you, Colin.<br>

The same idea, but the thing is really old :-) No geared movements, which is important for precise focusing .</p>

<p>Here is a 35mm slr lens used on a 4x5" digital scan back. Scan area is 7x10cm.<br>

<br /> The wideangle 35mm F2.8 PC Nikkor 35mm slr lens makes a round circle on the scan back. (Like the original Kodak box cameras with a round image! :))<br>

<br /> The lens is recessed into a homemade lens board so one gets infinity focus. This rig was used to shoot some closeups of scale models about 10 years ago.<br>

<br /> Besides the 35mm lens; some 50mm and 75mm enlarging lenses were used too. With longer lenses and closeup work; one can tilt the lens to get the focus on model; who's axis is not parallel with the scan back.<br>

<br /> The old 35mm F2.8 PC nikkor has a little bit more coverage than a regular 35mm lens; since it is made for 11mm shifts.</p>

<p><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/Speed%20Gr%2035mmPC/tripods-298.jpg?t=1255182555" alt="" width="398" height="424" /></p>

<p><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/Speed%20Gr%2035mmPC/tripods-297.jpg?t=1255182718" alt="" width="499" height="452" /></p>

<p><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/Speed%20Gr%2035mmPC/tripods-296.jpg?t=1255182807" alt="" /></p>

<p>Ok, and maybe a dumb question, but why? You're swapping a full-frame or smaller sensor for a 4x5 sheet of film. What's the gain? Why not just buy a digital back for the 4x5? There are several on the market including some specific digital 4x5 cameras. And you can also get the same with a Horseman View Camera Converter that's been on the market for about a decade. And even easier, just by one of Canon's tilt-shift lenses and go out and shoot.</p>

<p>The reason that folks used a 4x5 scan back to do this 10 to 13 years ago was that a dslr had a low number of pixels; a scan back was about the only game in town for a high end direct scan. Once a dslr was just 1.3 megapixels and cost as much as car.</p>

<p>I appreciate the hack, I really do, but what do you mean to use it for?</p>

<p>The catch, I would think, is that of the shift adapter I have for my P6 lenses on my Canon EOS cameras:<br /> that there are so few lenses covering a 6x6 or larger negative size that are wide enough to be useful for perspective control on a 35mm or APS-C sized sensor, at least in architectural photography. My Sonnar 180mm f/2.8 works beautifully as a shift lens, but what is it good for? There just aren't that many 35mm-focal-length-and-under lenses available that will cover the 35mm format when shifted.</p>

<p>My widest 6x6 lens is a Mir-26B 45mm and it's just barely usable (not dealing with its overall softness) with the shift adapter I have on a 35mm sensor. Here it is on the shift adapter on the 5D and a picture at maximum shift. The latter is straight out of the camera without any Photoshopping except reduction to the display width.</p>

<p>So in the end, I just use my PC-Nikkor 35mm f/2.8 on the 5D with an adapter and all is peachy. Eventually I'll invest in a more modern perspective control lens.</p><div></div>

 

<p>Alex said:<br>

"Paul, Never heard of it. Are you taking about this:<br /> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CB40191K2/" target="_blank">http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CB40191K2/</a> ?"<br>

<em>Yep, that's the one.</em><br>

"I was looking at this: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CB4600K1/" target="_blank">http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CB4600K1/</a> .. But I mine was still less money and more interesting to do.."<br>

<em>No doubt. I think it's great! I looked at the item mentioned above a few years ago and balked at the high price ("how much?!"). This might be a great winter project. Thanks for the idea!</em> Paul</p>

 

<p><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=1841065">JDM von Weinberg</a> ,<br>

I am thinking to use setup for a studio macro photography, great example is shown in my another post here: <a href="http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=764337">http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=764337,</a><br>

JJ has posted some photos. I';ve ordered the same lens , will post a full review soon here.</p>

<p><a href="htpp://www.koloskov.com">Alex kolsokov</a></p>

 

<p>I've got some test images from the camera, with Rodenstock APO Rodagon N 80 F4 attached:<br /> Fixed exposure on both, 1/250 F8<br /> Non tilted, straight photo:<br /> <img src="http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/watch-product-photography-1.jpg" alt="" /> <br /> <br /> <br /> 100% cro<a href="http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/watch-close-up-11.jpg">p<br /> http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/watch-close-up-11.jpg<br /> </a> <br /> <br /> Tilted on both axis to achieve focusing on the whole watch's dial :<br /> <img src="http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/watch-product-photography-2.jpg" alt="" /> <br /> See the difference?<br /> 100% crop:<br /> <a href="http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/watch-close-up-21.jpg">http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/watch-close-up-21.jpg</a> <br /> So, this is my answer to <a href="../photodb/user?user_id=1841065">JDM von Weinberg</a> on how I am going to use it: Studio product photography. You can't beat this quality, unless you'll go 10 times more expensive. My project cost me $400 for the system + $200 for the lens. And image quality is better than on my Canon 180mm F3.5 macro lens which cost alone about $1000.<br /> The full review on my <a href="http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/2009/10/tilt-shift-adapter-in-studio-test-review-eos-1ds-mounted-on-a-large-format-system-camera">blog </a> .<br /> <br /> Enjoy!</p>

<blockquote>

<p>And image quality is better than on my Canon 180mm F3.5 macro lens which cost alone about $1000.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>

<p dir="ltr">I must admit I can't see the relevance of this statement. You pay 1K$ for the 180/3.5L not only because of IQ but mainly because it enables you 1:1 magnification from 25cm.</p>

<p dir="ltr"> </p>

<p dir="ltr">Happy shooting,</p>

<p dir="ltr">Yakim.</p>

 

<p dir="ltr"> </p>

</p>

 

<p>Yakim,<br>

So, what is your point? With Rodenstock attached I do have 1:1 magnification, but not limited to 1:1. Moving lens away from the camera gives me ability to have up to 5:1 magnification, plus, tilt to move focus. Yes, it will be closer than 25 cm, because it is 80mm lens. You can get longer for another $200, if needed.:-)<br>

This is what I meant by comparing canon macro and my setup.</p>

<p>Alex</p>

<p>You can put a longer, non-macro lens and get 1:1 magnification from 25cm working distance? I'm impressed. I didn't know that was possible.</p>

 

<p dir="ltr"> </p>

<p dir="ltr">Happy shooting,</p>

<p dir="ltr">Yakim.</p>

<p>Yakim,<br>

Yes, it is possible. Any lens will work as a 1:1 macro , if you move it away from a camera. In most cases you'll lose sharpness and resolution, but good enlarging lens will perform very well in such situation. <br /> This is why macro lenses usually much longer comparing to the non-macro lerns with the same focal distance when focused on a closest point.<br>

Remember, I use Rodenstcok lens which is not designed to be used with the camera at all:-)<br>

Alex</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Any lens will work as a 1:1 macro , if you move it away from a camera.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I know that. It's basic photography. But what about working distance (i.e. end of the lens to subject, not MFD)? It's the same principle of extension tubes. And working distance shortens. The point I was making earlier is that the price of the 180/3.5 is not only great optics and 1:1 macro but getting this alongside with 25cm working distance. What is the working distance of your lens at 1:1?</p>

<p>Happy shooting,<br>

Yakim.</p>