5D MKII here it is

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by images_in_light_north_west, Sep 16, 2008.

  1. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091705canon_5dmarkII.asp
     
  2. Fantastic...I'll have a couple please ;) Price anyone ? Those specs are pretty special.
     
  3. sai

    sai

    I'm in love...
     
  4. Looks pretty darn good... I'm really surprised they used the Mark II moniker, but you can't be right all the time. ;)
     
  5. sai

    sai

    But only 3.9fps? I though they would go for 5 or 6. Impressive anyhow
     
  6. Steve , BrooklynScamera.com has it for $995.95, with the 24-105 IS lens as a kit for $1195.95....order now.
     
  7. Is that a microphone at the back near the viewfinder window ? (at the back ?)
     
  8. Jack - that's great - maybe I'll get three ! ;)
     
  9. Canon Australia don't even have the EOS 50D listed yet... :)
     
  10. $2700 in the US, 2500 euro. Kaa
     
  11. From the specs: Compatible Lenses:Canon EF lenses (35mm-equivalent focal length is approx. 1.6x the lens focal length) ;-) Someone has been using copy/paste
     
  12. Well it didn't take long for reality to set in...thanks Kaa ;) In all seriousness though - that's not a horrific price, just a bit pricey (similar to the mkI when it first came out ?)
     
  13. So the market for new and used 1DS Mk111's is going to be interesting! Who would want or but one now?
     
  14. i guess it's actually 30fps. just shoot video and pick the frame later
     
  15. Where do I sign? I'm in!
     
  16. My take on this is here.
    Summary: This is a credible reply to Nikon's D90/D300/D700 triad, and certainly exceeds even the most pie-in-the-sky expectations I'd heard for the 5D Mark II. I can't wait to see actual photos (and videos) taken with this.
     
  17. It's basically a 50D at twice the price and with a 21Mp full-frame sensor instead of a 15Mp x1.6 one. I guess the make-or-break feature will be the performance of the new sensor at high ISO. Kaa
     
  18. "It's basically a 50D at twice the price and with a 21Mp full-frame sensor instead of a 15Mp x1.6 one."
    AND IT WILL BE MINE.
     
  19. Could this mean an updated 1Ds and 1D. Canon cant possibly have the 5D outperform its flagship 1Ds. As posted, who would pay 8000 for a camera thats images are not what the 5D can produce at about 1/3 the price. Maybe there's more to come for Photokina. Explains the pre-release. Maybe they plan on "Shocking" the world with a new 1Ds/1D that will seek out and destroy all Nikons. Who knows. I wish someone had some real images from this thing to see what we're looking at. Hats off to some of the predictors out there. Several nailed this prediction. One I read was spot on. One guy on another site said he confirmed "No Live view" due to sensor heat. He was wrong. Not only did they bring it, the added AF Face detection.
     
  20. Sample images from the 5D-Mk2: http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/eos5dm2/eos5dm2_sample-e.html Kaa
     
  21. Impressive indeed. One thing I would like is to understand the theory of reluctance to add a pop-up flash on the 5D series.
     
  22. I mean real images from real world photogs of real subjects. Not Canon perfect world shots. Maybe photos from a theatre for example where they crank it to 6400 and see what they look like. No broad daylight images at 6400 and f/11. I mean dark enviornment, ISO 6400 f/2.8 images. I'm sure they look great. I just want to see what the full 21Mp sensor does at these settings. Settings we would actually use. I still like pro bodies, but it should make a great landscape camera for those who really shot alot of this and could do large prints. Wedding photogs dream I'm sure. Especially if they are as clean or cleaner than the 1D3 and still giving them 21MP to use. By the way, link isnt working. Maybe crashed from all the traffic. LOL
     
  23. "Maybe there's more to come for Photokina. Explains the pre-release. Maybe they plan on "Shocking" the world with a new 1Ds/1D that will seek out and destroy all Nikons." No, no. The Nikon D3 is still the best compromise camera out there--for those who want compromise. This new 5DII along with the 1Ds III and the existing 1D III pretty much define the terrain of no compromise--specialization, not Nikon's camera that supposedly fits all possible needs, if one believes that such a camera exists. Since Nikon is not likely to come out with a new DSLR at Photokina, we could be looking at the 35mm digital landscape for at least another year. I am going to the Nikon thread now to see how the Nikonians to try to play this down. That will be tough, but we will get the usual "I don't need more megapixels." Well, maybe they don't, but 12 mp is beginning to sound pretty small, although admittedly big enough for most applications. --Lannie
     
  24. The link's slow, but working for me. As to "real photos", keep in mind that this camera looks to be diffraction-limited above f/8 or so. And at f/2.8 you're mostly looking at your lens' shortcomings, instead of the sensor's. But yes, I'd be much interested in photos taken with, say, Canon's 85mm f/1.2 lens at *all* the ISO settings available... Kaa
     
  25. If you're using Firefox the Canon Japan link may not work - keeps flipping between web1.canon.jp and web.canon.jp - try it in IE (or chrome ?) or just amend the URL in your locator bar to web1.canon.jp instead of web.canon.jp. They're not real good images to make a call from. My Canon Powershot A80 can produce good web images...
     
  26. No just IE. But yes its slow. It opened for me then crashed. .Kaa> I know, but I want to see some that you and I would take at a play with a 85 1.2L at ISO6400 to see what it gives us. You know...a real stress test. We already know what all the other models give at these settings. Would it be alot better or about what we've already seen from the 1Ds. Canon always posts images of "ideal" conditions. I wish I always worked in "ideal" conditions, but more often than not I dont. But just curious if the hype was deserving or if its typical over hype/expectations. Or do we really have some meaningfull improvements? The 50D looked like a good jump...only time will tell.
     
  27. "Maybe there's more to come for Photokina" We hear that every time following Canon announcements. To the best of my knowledge, there generally aren't any additional announcements.
     
  28. Well, in practical terms this looks like more a direct match up with the Sony A900 than any other camera on the market, except for the whole video thing (which is not insignificant). Somehow I think Sony may catch up on the video end eventually though.
     
  29. Is it just me, or does the landscape (particularly the dry land in the background) look like it's computer generated? The green stuff, whatever it is, lacks any texture.
     
  30. I know. Isnt it odd though that the 5D has the potential to produce superior images to the 1Ds. I'm sure you're right, but not totally out of question. We've seen DSLR updates pretty frequently here in the last year. The 40D was barley 1yr old and I was in the process of selling mine due to 1D3 purchase and bang...50D. Know, I may as well keep it. Have a good backup I guess. Now the 1D3 is more than a year old and with all the AF issues behind them and trying to move forward, who's to say they dont toss a little "n" on that baby and finish out Photokina with a bang. Or, maybe just wishfull thinkin.
     
  31. My response was to G Dan Mitchell. The heavy traffic makes posting very slow
     
  32. I'm in love. All I have to do is find the 2.2k GBP. And wait for my arms to heal after my wife breaks them!
     
  33. Response to David's 1st question: Canon tends to put new technologies and features in their consumer/prosumer cameras before their pro line. This gives them an idea of how the new features work in the field so they can tweak/improve before putting on their 1 series cameras. It's just like when the EOS 3 was released in '98 and some of its new features were implemented in the EOS-1V two years later.
     
  34. Sorry Landrum I can't agree, Unless you are a Canon Master of Light or work for VII then I don't see how or why anybody would buy a 1DS MkIII. The 5D MkII is plenty rugged enough for 99.9% of users. The 1D MkIII still has a place, at 10 fps and the effect of making your $4,000 300mm f2.8 an effective $6,800 390 (400) mm f2.8. The 1DS MkIII at $8,000 is dead, very interested to watch the auction values of these once the 5D MkII is on the shelves. Not slagging anybody off just interesting the way progress pushes on so fast. When I first went digital I was reluctant, I wanted my 1VHS's in digital form, the key points were full frame and 10fps with a similar resolution to the film I was using at comparable ISO's. Well just a few short years later and we are very nearly there, the ISO is there (to all intents and purposes) the resolution is there at 20+MP, again in practical terms, now if we get the build of the 1 series at FF (1DS MkIII) and 10fps (1D MkIII) we are there. I would pay $8,000 for that, and probably will in April!
     
  35. Keep in mind that with 3.9 FPS and less than wonderful AF system, it's not a camera a sports shooter would buy... Kaa
     
  36. .Kaa few of them are using the 1DS either: at 5fps and excellent AF.
     
  37. mike dixon

    mike dixon Moderator

    I was planning to wait another year or so before upgrading from my current 5D, but the Mk.2 looks so good, I don't know if I'll be able to restrain myself. If it was over $3000, it would be easier to wait, but at $2700, I may be getting myself a very nice Christmas present.
     
  38. Any ideas on release date? (or did i miss something?)
     
  39. "As to "real photos", keep in mind that this camera looks to be diffraction-limited above f/8 or so. And at f/2.8 you're mostly looking at your lens' shortcomings, instead of the sensor's." The old 5D is fine at f/16, and the 5DII will be fine at f/11. That moves the hyperfocal distance for a 20mm lens from 1 meter at f/16 to 2 meters at f/11. That is a significant consideration for landscape types. At f/4.0 and wider, one sees softness with the old 5D, so that's just the way things work. At the same print size, the 5DII should provide _slightly_ sharper images with the same lens at the funky f stops, but only slightly (this is because system MTF is a product of component MTFs). Again, lenses being funky at or near wide open isn't news, so it shouldn't be seen as a big deal. More generally, the more resolution one wants, the harder one has to work to get it (better lenses, more optimal f stops, heavier tripod); you don't get better images for free. So, yes, the 5DII will be harder to use than the 5D if one wants the 28% improved linear resolution its pixel count implies.
     
  40. >To Peter Langfelder[[Is it just me, or does the landscape (particularly the dry land in the background) look like it's computer generated? The green stuff, whatever it is, lacks any texture.]] It moss. It never has texture in photos because its so fine and the wide shot is so far away. To get any texture you'd need to have a Macro and be 2" away from it. Its normal. The images look as good as any for the scene/conditions. The real images produced once the review guys get them will tell the story. Not the ones who shoot test charts, but ones who go into challenging enviornments to see what the camera gives. Remember when Sigma came out with its 14mp Foveon crap. All the images they showed from it looked like they came from a Phase One MF. And probably did. Once real photographers grabbed hold of these things and jumped into real world photography they found the images looked no better than old Canon 10D stuff. But Sigma did a good job at putting the camera in position to shine long enough to post samples of what it "might" do if everything was perfect. So far, they look pretty promising though, and a little lower in price than most thought.
     
  41. I was planning to wait another year or so before upgrading from my current 5D, but the Mk.2 looks so good, I don't know if I'll be able to restrain myself. If it was over $3000, it would be easier to wait, but at $2700, I may be getting myself a very nice Christmas present. Well you have a very nice Xmas.
     
  42. Where is Bob Atkins when you need him? Would have loved to have heard his comments. Guess he is asleep in the US, and missed all the action:)
     
  43. For me, the D700 looks a lot more interesting. I have more or less accepted the fact that in the near future I will be playing it both ways. I hear it's more fun this way.... :) Happy shooting, Yakim.
     
  44. All I got todo is get a sticker that says Mark II and I'm good to go.
     
  45. ...and i was thinking to turn my eyes to nikon.... pfff...
     
  46. I was waiting for this announcement for the last couple of weeks. Here I come Nikon D700.....
     
  47. No Print button. Looks like a downgrade then ...
     
  48. My take: If the 5DMkII performs as advertised this will be an excellent and well priced successor to the 5D (and I for one will upgrade from my existing 5D) Canon has moved ahead of SonyNikon in terms of sensor technology (resolution/ISO balance) (other aspects may be arguable) The MP race is heating up, not slowing down. Canon is making an emphatic statement: 21MP is for the midrange, NOT the next flagship. The 1Ds replacement will come soon, and will be 30+ MP, if not 40+. In Canon's view, the just released A900 and presumed equivalent Nikon will be competing at a lower level than Canon's new flagship. SonyNikon has succeeded in forcing Canon to lift their game, but has to get back on the front foot to compete against a resurgent Canon.
     
  49. Now I remember why I chose Canon :) I'm sooo happy that I have to cry! With my 28-300 L IS, that's what I call a walkaround camera! Fux
     
  50. Yes Mark but at 20+ MP you are working diminishing returns. Diffraction, as has been pointed out, makes f16 and higher pictures less sharp than f11 pictures, there is little point in going to much higher MP's in the 35mm format. The numbers game works in the Best Buy type arena but when you are talking about ultimate image quality then the people in the 1DS market don't care about the numbers they just want the IQ. Canon themselves say the 5D MkII gives the best IQ of any DSLR they make to date, that effectively kills the 1DS MkIII and it makes it seem very over priced at 3 times the money. It will be very interesting to see how this all pans out.
     
  51. Yeah yeah yeah......very nice . Now can we have some peace please?
     
  52. There's a lot to like about this camera, to say the least. However: Why not a 6-7 fps option at 10-12MP?
     
  53. The 50D provides 15 MP at 6.3 fps for less money if that is what you need.
     
  54. Looks like everyone is smiling. Everything on this Mark II is so nice, except a small dissapointment - only 3.9, not 5 or 6fps.
     
  55. Funny 50D/5DII starting already. Yea 3.9 is a little less then I expected but I rarely use the 6.5 of the 40D.
     
  56. Twice the number of pixels (than the 40D) means 2X longer to move image data off the sensor (assuming same number of readout channels, ADCs, processing, everything else equal). Therefore, a slower frame rate is not unexpected.
     
  57. fjp

    fjp

    The 3.9 fps rate is probably related to compact flash write bandwidth limit and increased file size due to higher resolution. I'm just a begginer but I'm already starting to feel some of the limitations in my Rebel XTi, so I'll probably be buying one by Christmas :)
     
  58. "Yes Mark but at 20+ MP you are working diminishing returns. Diffraction, as has been pointed out, makes f16 and higher pictures less sharp than f11 pictures, there is little point in going to much higher MP's in the 35mm format. The numbers game works in the Best Buy type arena but when you are talking about ultimate image quality then the people in the 1DS market don't care about the numbers they just want the IQ. Canon themselves say the 5D MkII gives the best IQ of any DSLR they make to date, that effectively kills the 1DS MkIII and it makes it seem very over priced at 3 times the money. It will be very interesting to see how this all pans out." I dont know what have they said about the 1DsMkIII ? is it diffraction limited, I have not heard of any problems. Can some one tell us a little about that ? preferably some one who actually ownes one
     
  59. Well lets see, my thoughts: 1) In Camera Video. Working photojournalist have grown to hate that they are often expected to shoot video clips for newspaper websites / associated TV stations. This gives them a camera capable of delivering quality digital video without having to switch between still and video cameras. 2) On the various 1D's. The real strength of the 1D MIII is that you can be tackled by the police while covering a political convention and camera and (L lens) will likely survive. As pointed out the Ds is dead. I keep hearing rumors about a Canon Digital Medium Format. 3) Most sports shooters at some point have used cameras with around 5 fps, they'll either live or continue to use a 1D. 4) The megapixil wars will continue until we reach "rule of thumb" level (i.e. 35MP is max useful resolution for 35mm film sized sensor). 5) This is a no choice camera. With Nikon, Canon and Sony now in 20+ MP range the market for professional photos is going to demand 20+ MP shots. 6) Kodak's quest for film that if scanned at X-MPs shows no grain (i.e. can fake digital) just got harder. 2600-500(use medium format kit) / $10/roll film + processing (optimistic) = 210 rolls. Assume a 2 year life cycle on the camera = 105 rolls/year to break even (not counting price of a film scanner). Depends how much future proofing you can get out of the negatives I guess.
     
  60. Sure the 1Ds are dead, but Nikon pretty well killed the D3 with the D700. Canon has to produce a camera that performed for the market as it is now, not compared to the rest of their range. To have picked a 16MP sensor would obviously have not cut it, for example.
     
  61. Australian availability anyone?
    Cheers Sam
     
  62. Hi Ross, Read this http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm It is just straight forward physics, not a manufacturer issue but it lays down finite f stops with pixel size, very good scrolling graphics make this far and away the best example I have seen that explains the physics involved, interestingly if you want sharp resolution at small apertures you need older cameras!
     
  63. well... a 48" print viewed at 1m shot on a full frame 21mp sensor at F16 is not diffraction limited. But I guess we already knew that. Great link though Scott, i've seen that site before, but you brought it back to my memory. A lot of good information there.
     
  64. No print button! ? ? ? Wait, the deal is off! LOL
     
  65. Hi David, That is my point though, at the moment the diffraction is not limiting but when you make the pixels small enough to fit 30+ million on a 36x24mm area (as is speculated for the next 1DS) then it will. I am sure Canon, Nikon and Sony all know where this is leading, I was just commenting, the 5D MkII is such a good camera, assuming it works as it is supposed to, that the pro models are going to struggle to have worthwhile benefits that make their pricing realistic. I used to shoot with F1N's, top of the line sport cameras that did 5fps, I could very happily live with that again, I used to use my 300mm as a 300mm, I would happily do that again. Canon have made a digital camera that surpasses the best FD cameras they ever made and they don't need film, auto focus and video it whilst you make a cup of tea! It won't be long till the 1VHS is surpassed. That was all I ever wanted from digital.
     
  66. Very true Scott. And the difference between 36x24 sensors and those little pea sized ones on P+S cameras is that you HAVE to use F11 or greater to maximize depth of field. It's much easier to get away with on a P+S camera because they have an inherintly broad depth of field at wide (relative) apertures because of their tiny sensors. Not to mention that P&S cameras are going to be limited by noise long before they are by diffraction anyways (which is really just a function of print size in the end, who prints 36x48" from a P&S?)
     
  67. Oh, and it seems the AF system is exactly the same as in 5D -- only the central AF point is the cross type. Seems like the 50D AF is better -- that's not a good thing... As to diffraction, just look at the pixel size and the Airy disk size. The 5DMk2 has 6.4nm pixels. At f/11 the Airy disk has 14.8nm diameter -- I'd certainly call that diffraction-limited. At f/8 the Airy disk is 10.7nm, and at f/5.6 -- 7.5nm. Kaa
     
  68. Relax everyone, the print button is still there. {whew!} It now doubles as Live View (and by extension, MLU).
     
  69. "I was waiting for this announcement for the last couple of weeks. Here I come Nikon D700....." This place is full of comedians.
     
  70. I got one on order for 2010 when the kinks are worked out and the price drops. Don't even have 1000 shots yet on my '08 5D. Lol.
     
  71. If you want to shoot video....Buy a video camera! What an upsetting waste to put into a DSLR. I bet ya there is still a print button that can not be cofigured into some sort of custom app.( A friggn' PRINT button, I still have not forgave Canon for that one!) I think my 5d will be just fine for a couple more years. Later Lemmings
     
  72. I think when I am sitting watching a sunrise a Mt Rainier it will be very cool to take 1080P video and and watch it later on my 40" LCD
     
  73. Looks very impressive - I'm tempted. A few things I'd miss from the 1D III though. 1) dual card slots for peace of mind. 2) more rugged design. 3) 10 fps 4) AF speed (only 9 points). 5) Vertical grip. 6) Customisation. 7) Speed (dual processors). I wonder about the ISO performance though - sounds good. But the 1Ds III has a reputation for being noisy with all those pixels pacted into the chip. New technology should have improved the situation, but just wonder how it compares to the 1D III for noise at ISO 3200.
     
  74. If you want to shoot video....Buy a video camera! What an upsetting waste to put into a DSLR. I bet ya there is still a print button that can not be cofigured into some sort of custom app.( A friggn' PRINT button, I still have not forgave Canon for that one!) I think my 5d will be just fine for a couple more years.
    Looks like somebody needs to take a reading class. And maybe consider that any video camera I could buy probably won't accept my EF lenses (duh). The video option really "upsets" you? Is it haunting you in your sleep or something? It doesn't look like Canon sacrificed anything to put it in there... is it just envy, perhaps?
     
  75. People are selling D3 unless they are sponsered by Nikon. I saw a photograher just bought two D3 and new set of VR lenses. I asked her why, she said because she likes Nikon :) Emotion is another reason.
     
  76. To add to what Stephen was saying, a couple of more useful features the 1Ds III has is its faster flash sync at 1/250, not 1/200 as on the new 5D, and exposure compensation of +/-3.0 EV, not +/-2.0 EV as on the 5D. I also wonder if the new 5D's battery was improved. I know the old version (without the optional grip) goes through batteries way faster than the 1Ds. But, whether or not these features are worth the extra money is a question that can only be answered by each photographer.
     
  77. It's now listed on Canon USA's site... http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=17662
     
  78. The 5DII is a consumer camera as is the D700. To say that these cameras have killed the 1Ds or the D3 is ludicrous. If you were a working professional, or had any idea of what a w.p.'s job entails, you wouldn't make statements like this. "People are selling D3 unless they are sponsered by Nikon." CRAP......... Would you care cite some examples? The D3, along with the 1Ds are still THE choice for pro photographers. I doubt that any shot that has come from a D3 for use in media has required a print size anywhere near what its 12mp will allow. MP count = determines the print size of the image....that is all. Higher mp are great from a marketing point of view and by the look of this thread, it seems to work. The cameras ability to get the shot is what pros care about. Any Nikon or Canon pro SLR made in the last five years has had great IQ.
     
  79. I doubt that any shot that has come from a D3 for use in media has required a print size anywhere near what its 12mp will allow. 5D has 12MP years ago cost much less than a D3. So, if you want 12MP, you have your solution years ago. No need to wait for D3. Also, in order to take full advantage of the new bodies, she is also using the new VR lenses. basciallly, she is investing into the new system, buying new bodies, new lenses, new flash. For professionals, you want to have the best gear available, brand names don't matter. my 2 cents.
     
  80. so why compare a consumer camera to a pro camera. they are intended for a totally different market. stop using the mp count as the be all and end all to the usefulness of a camera. it normally is the furthest thing from my mind when i shoot
     
  81. Tom you are dead wrong, I am not using the MP as the only criteria, the MAIN thing I based my comments on was IQ, Canon say themselves that the 5D MkII is the best IQ of any DSLR they have ever made. The 1D MkIII still has a niche, the 1DS MK III's niche as the best of the best and damn the expense is now not true. Yes a very few photographers might be able to justify the crazy price for one but as a working pro I would rather have 2 5D MkII's and a new 24mm f1.4 or even better the rumoured 24-70mm f2.8 IS, I don't know any that wouldn't! Countless wedding, event, news and landscape photographers are using 5D's this will only increase with the 5D MkII and it's very high spec to price ratio. If I were a landscape shooter and wanted the best IQ Canon could sell me they would tell me to buy a 5D MkII not the 1DS MkIII. I am sure they will bring out something to better it but today it is not here, I found that very interesting and I am glad (though I do own 1D series equipment) that I did not invest heavily in the 1DS MkIII. I will invest very heavily in my 1VHS digital replacement.
     
  82. Scott, what do you do when you get a card failure using the 5D Mk II, do you not wish that you had shot with a 1 series camera and written on two cards? You mentioned weddings and events.
     
  83. I am not trying to start a war here. If you think NIkon fits your profile or higher MP dont' matter, get it.
     
  84. Well Iikka, before they were invented we all shot on film, one at a time, and then onto 1 card, but I have never had an issue with the 1 card system that I use in my antiquated 1 series cameras! When are they going to bring out three card systems for extra extra backup, when will the use of wireless on the fly backup become considered essential by all "serious" photographers so that a shot is never lost? It has all gotten crazy! Yes two cards are nice and a very few people have had the day saved by using them, but double card or camera failure or misplacing the film happens too. Two 5D Mk II bodies would stand you in better position should your 1DS MkIII fail! Show me a serious wedding pro that uses 1 camera, the cost of getting the best image quality possible just went down from $16,000 to less than $5,500! Now that is progress.
     
  85. "But the 1Ds III has a reputation for being noisy with all those pixels pacted into the chip" Your kidding me right?
     
  86. I can't wait to see all the stunning imagery with the Mark II, that has somehow escaped the owners of the 5D and its lower brethren. I just wanted to say that 'Archimedes Alcantara' is the best patron-name on photo.net ever! captain dan
     
  87. The question is "How much are the extra features of a 1Ds Mk III worth to you?" now that IQ is essentially a wash. When the IQ was superior in the 1Ds line, it made sense to buy for that reason alone for many people - the additional speed, weatherproofing, etc. was really a bonus (I was in that category). Now you really have to NEED the weatherproofing, frame rate, buffer, etc. to justify the additional $5,300. While that may well be worth it to sports photographers, some journalists, etc. I doubt that for many professionals it would be preferable to having a second 5D Mk II body and a couple of decent L lenses - or money left in your pocket. It's hard to believe Canon have shot themselves in the foot so successfully regarding 1Ds Mk III sales unless they have a MK IV ready to go. If that's the case then many recent 1Ds Mk III owners will have every right to feel somewhat shafted.
     
  88. It's hard to believe Canon have shot themselves in the foot so successfully regarding 1Ds Mk III sales unless they have a MK IV ready to go. If that's the case then many recent 1Ds Mk III owners will have every right to feel somewhat shafted Years go, no one has FF. now, nikon.sony have FF. competition is fierce. I believe they are investing RD into a new 30MP sensors. They are NOT shooting themselves in the foot. If they cannot compete, they are gone.
     
  89. Scott, of course one needs a backup camera (this is in addition to dual cards on the camera(s)), but if you store your critical images on one card only, the card may malfunction and you will only after the events have passed discover that the data can not be read, when it is too late to reshoot. Whereas if the camera malfunctions, you will immediately notice and switch to the backup, so only a few moments are lost. Three cards are not useful since the probability of a single card failing is maybe 1 time per year (for a pro), so two cards failing on the same shoot is extremely unlikely (once in a million shoots perhaps). I don't advocate using a dual card camera for everything. But for anything which is an important one-time only event and the outcome matters to someone other than the photographer, I always do. And I know wedding photographers who shoot with older 1 series models because they want the dual card feature but do not want to spend the money on the latest. This is always an option so talking about $16000 is just silly. This, among several reasons (including autofocus, viewfinder, build) are why the 5D Mk II's sensor specs should be totally irrelevant to someone in the market for an 1 series camera.
     
  90. Ilkka, I don't know how many weddings I have shot, but it is lots, I don't know how many times I have used my 1D series cameras, (it has to be in the thousands) I messed up with one roll of film once pre digital, I have never had a card failure. Don't forget my 1D cameras only have one slot. I have shot lots of what some people would consider important. Talking about $16,000 is not silly, it is a very valid point, last week if you wanted to set yourself up as a wedding photographer and wanted to offer the best IQ available in 35mm format ((the rest of the 1D series is pretty wasted on wedding pros) the bride and groom generally aren't moving fast, AF, they don't get married in sandstorms, weatherproofing etc) then you had to buy the 1DS MkIII, now you don't. Now I am not saying that nobody can justify the purchase of the 1DS MkIII but there can be very very few people who NEED it given that just a very few years ago nobody had AF, or any other things that nowadays are considered "essential". Photographers used to be the picture takers and be responsible for the whole thing, whilst the best of the best are still pushing boundaries the average person can now take superb pictures with prosumer gear. Oh a simple way round your card failure, use more small cards, then you could only lose a small series of pics, kinda like we did hundreds of years ago with film when we were limited to 36 exposures before changing films. I know I see things too simply but most people seem to need to complicate things too much. You also mention viewfinder, the difference between 98% and 100% is nothing. The build of the 1D is the same and is half the cost, the sensor is the same as the 5D MkII and is one third the cost! Every single point that the 1DS Mk III has can be done without by a good photographer, lots of outstanding photographers still use a light meter, M and to a lesser extent manual focus, even when they are using the 1D series cameras. My point was that a prosumer camera now has at least equal, but probably higher, IQ than a camera costing three times the price and the functionality of the $8,000 one really doesn't look any where near where it should be. Given that there is a very easy work around for any short coming that some feel the 5D MkII might have, I think it has put so much pressure on the 1DS MkIII that the values of them can only drop off depressingly fast for anybody that has bought one recently. I'm not emotional about this stuff, I was just interested in what will happen to the 1DS MkIII especially seeing as how it is so young. I am in the market for new cameras next year. It looks to me like I will have a choice between a 1DS Mk IV that will probably not have features that I would justify $8,000 on, a 5D MkII for $2,700 or I suspect a 1DS MkIII for similar money. Now if I had the choice of a new 5D MkII or a used 1DS MkIII for similar money the greater functionality of the 1 Series would win out, it did when I bought my last cameras. But be honest, if the 1D MkIII is a highly regarded niche machine at $4,000, the 5D MkII can take virtually every picture the 1DS MkIII can take at $2,700, what is the true value of a 1DS MkIII new, I'd say it was closer to $4,000, which makes the used market very very interesting. Lastly you kill your own argument, " This............ why the 5D Mk II's sensor specs should be totally irrelevant to someone in the market for an 1 series camera." if this were true then the 1DS MkIII would never have sold a single camera, everybody would have bought the 1D MkIII and gotten higher fps as well! The sensor is what the 1DS series is all about.
     
  91. I totally agree with Scott on this one. I was in the market for a 1Ds MkIII (due to the IQ and sensor) and now I'm not. The other features mean very little to me (I may pay $1000 over the price of a 5D MkII for them, maybe not even that much). It's all a matter of the right tool for the job and not paying for more than you need - I understand that different people have different needs, and for some people the 1Ds Mk III remains the perfect tool for the job at any price. I will buy 2 5D MkIIs and I do already have a 1Ds MkII which will be a heavy back up along with the original 5Ds. I have also never had a card failure - ever - in four years of shooting solely digital (DSLR and MF Digital), let alone "one a year". My MF digital - at multiples the price of any DSLR - has ONE CF card slot - again never any problem and no failures. I did have assistants open film magazines full of exposed film, turn darkroom lights on with 18 exposed, undeveloped rolls loaded on spools in a dev basket (!), put film through dodgy x-ray machines, just plain lose an occasional roll, and countless other incidents. I'm not saying card failures can't happen, but it's really the least of my worries. To suggest that everyone using Medium Format digital doesn't care about their images or clients and isn't professional as they only have one card slot is plain silly. I know, I know - I have now totally jinxed myself and no doubt will have card failures galore all next week!
     
  92. Well, to me losing images because of a card failure once in a lifetime would be too much if it happened at a critical time. And some pros do report having card failures approximately once a year; perhaps they shoot in different conditions than you or I. To me the problem with the viewfinder of the 5D (and presumably, mark II) is that I have to move my eye around to see the whole frame, whereas with the Nikon D3/D700 or an 1D Mk III, for example, I can see everything on one glance. This is the primary reason I did not buy the 5D. Perhaps this is not an issue with all people who wear glasses but it certainly is a deal breaker for me. Then there are the reports of mirrors falling out of 5D's which one sometimes encounters on photo.net, other forums, even a local camera store here mentioned this. I have no idea of the actual frequency of these problems. Jeff Ascough mentioned that he shoots with an 1.3X crop camera as it is easier to see the whole frame than with the full-frame models; compared to 5D this certainly is true. I guess these ergonomic factors are a matter of individual anatomy also. In any case one should not make generalisations that a model has no market just based on the cheaper model having the same or a better sensor; other things such as ergonomics are also important. In film cameras, all the camera bodies make the same image quality, yet the prices varied wildly depending on ruggedness and features. I've always thought the 1Ds series are somewhat expensive for small format cameras, but increasing the pixel count within 24x36 isn't going to solve that, it's likely to create more problems than it solves. It's better to increase the sensor size, go to medium format if you want more pixels - so you get good pixel level detail in the files. If Canon just reduces the price of the 1Ds Mk III (i.e. to $5500) or applies the new 50D sensor technology to make a 1Ds Mk IV (with clean ISO 6400), then it should sell what it always did. More pixels ... that's just a bad idea in a small format camera. I'd hate to see DSLRs ruined the same way point and shoot cameras have been.
     
  93. Ordered mine today! I can't wait.
     
  94. " I'd hate to see DSLRs ruined the same way point and shoot cameras have been." This is an excellent point - the noise on some of the new P&S cameras with stupid, no need, MP counts- even at 200 ISO - is intolerable compared to the older 4MP cameras of a few years ago. I do worry about this - noise and diffraction issues - as the MP count climbs ever upwards... I shoot MF digital when it's possible and appropriate and DSLRs when it's appropriate. Sometimes you need a DSLR simply to get the kind of shot you want, in those cases the improved IQ of MF digital is obviously irrelevant. It's funny how everyone's priorities are different - I prefer the 5Ds handling to the 1Ds Mk II as I like the smaller size and weight and the larger screen, the viewfinders don't seem significantly different to me. I do think it's important to remember that cameras are just tools - I get emotional and uptight about images, but the camera is just the capture device at the end of the equation and all the hard work. As such, all I want is to not be limited by my cameras - technically or creatively - I don't want to be lugging around or paying for more than I need.
     
  95. "so why compare a consumer camera to a pro camera. they are intended for a totally different market. " The 5D and the 5D2 are not merely consumer cameras, that's what the dReb's are. The 5D family is the Prosumer category. This isn't news except perhaps to one person above. I am not making any of ths up. The 5D is not aimed at the DSLR (mass) consumer market. It's aimed at Working Pros, High End Amateurs, semi-pros, and those pros and non-pros after some of the highest quality DSLR photography they can achieve, myself included.
     
  96. "And some pros do report having card failures approximately once a year..." And I'd wager a month's pay that the vast majority of those failures are User Error: card removed too soon; camera turned off too soon; card already full from session and the pro pressed the shutter again; card formatted on another different body and then used in the other camera; card has a few shots from another's brands camera and again, shot with this camera... on and on... Full card accidentally inserted and another picture taken... Every one of those failures is easily preventable User Error.
     
  97. @Ken The only real user error in your list is "card removed too soon". The camera must be able to handle all the other cases you list without losing data. If it loses data this is a bug of the camera and should be reported to the manufacturer.
     
  98. looks major to me. love to have one. wonder if the pic of the 5dmkll was shot with a 5dmkll. cheers. -gw.
     
  99. thanks, ross.
     
  100. Does anyone have a clue when it will actually be on the shelves? Just curious...
     
  101. "when it will actually be on the shelves" My guess is very late November or early December at the earliest. Canon has scheduled hands-on pre-release events through November 24 in Japan. So it will presumably be after that that it hits the shelves.
     
  102. Yes -- all this hype from us fan boys and two solid months or more before we commoners can expect one delivered. Sigh............... Just being a solid member of EOS Forum on PN should be worth something, you think? Here's hoping Bob Atkins gets one super early to test. I am getting my game play ready for my wife to help break the news that I need (not "want") FF and 21 MP for large prints... you only live once.
     
  103. "Canon have shot themselves in the foot so successfully regarding 1Ds Mk III sales" My guess is that the 1Ds series has always been intended to be a loss leader, and that Canon never expected them to be profitable. Having bragging rights to the best dSLR has to be worth a lot. Also, the corporate camera pool market is a big part of the pro camera market, and that market is probably already saturated as far as the 1DsIII is concerned. Furthermore, with the Sony 24MP camera out, the 1DsIII doesn't look like the slam-dunk best any more, evn though it is. I was expecting a "compromise" of 18MP: enough to outclass the D700 but less than the 1DsIII. But presumably Canon saw the 24MP Sony coming and realized they had to be at least close.
     
  104. "Having bragging rights to the best dSLR has to be worth a lot. 18MP: enough to outclass the D700 " You seem to have in your head David that the higher the MP, the better the camera. It is my experience that this is usually quite the opposite. It is all about ruggedness, speed, and reliability. In a pro camera, the IQ goes without saying. I haven't seen any indepth review that has put the 1DsMkIII as the best. In fact I have seen a few that have stated that the Nikon D3 is THE best. But all of a sudden, Sony bring out a camera with 24mp and without you even seeing an image from this camera, or used the camera, you have assumed that your self titled "best 35mm DSLR camera" award may be in jepeordy!
     
  105. "You seem to have in your head David that the higher the MP, the better the camera" Yep. Within the range that lens performance keeps up and noise doesn't become a problem (ranges the P&S cameras have long since exceeded), ability to record detail is very important in photography, especially in landscape work. That's why people with budgets shoot MF digital and people with patience shoot LF. "In a pro camera, the IQ goes without saying." There are some mathematical realities about imaging that "ruggedness, speed, and reliability" have nothing to do with. Pixels size (and well depth) for DR and number of pixels for resolution are largely unrelated to the marketing class (pro/amateur) of the camera. Especially in this day and age when mfrs use the same electronics across the whole camera range (which is why dSLRs now have the "face recognition" AF silliness.) "It is all about ruggedness, speed, and reliability" Not for landscape, pictorial, art photography. For folks in the 6x6 and larger film class, the 5D is by far the most rugged, fastest, and reliable camera we've ever owned. (Really: the Mamiya 7 and 500C are nowhere close.) The 5D isn't a sports/PJ camera. It's a landscape, portrait, wedding camera. And more than adequate mechanically for those purposes. If you are making images interesting enough to print large and interesting enough that viewers will come in for a closer look, MF, LF, and other high quality photographs can have an incredible beauty to them. The 5DII _might_ get one step closer to that. (Sure, it's only a 28% increase in resolution. But that's about the same difference as the difference between 645 and 6x7; a difference I found to be a lot larger than expected when I finally bought a Mamiya 7.)
     
  106. I see a great camera body here....but what about the extra computer horsepower required to edit these huge files? IMO I see many people upgrading their PC/ Mac as well.....but then that would stimulate the economy too! ;)
     
  107. "If you are making images interesting enough to print large and interesting enough that viewers will come in for a closer look, MF, LF, and other high quality photographs can have an incredible beauty to them." I agree. The 5DII is not a 'toss it in the back of a jeep' rugged "Arnie" piece of kit, but apparently something tantalizingly located between 67/645 MF and pro DSLR small format, with the supreme benefit of being able to employ EF lenses. Increase the sensor size and you will need yet another all-electronic mount lens range. Cheers Tony T
     
  108. Bryan mentions extra computing horsepower...I just upgraded to a new computer in part with the expectation that the new 5D would have larger files and I would need the horsepower. Looks like a good call now. As a landscape photographer I can't wait for this to come out.
     
  109. The old 5D is so good I have no need for an upgrade, at least for now. I am a little interested in the Zeiss EF mount lenses coming out though.
     
  110. Yinka & Ken, Bob has rescued us http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_eos_5D_MkII_preview.html
     
  111. "Canon EOS 5D MkII is $2700, lower than Nikon's $3000 for the 12MP D700" It almost seems as though, with this statement, that mp seems to be the single determining factor for price. Or is this guy sponsored by Canon? Comparing cameras on price and making an assumption on the value of the camera on review purely based on mp is quite misleading and could one day result in groups of people drooling over a camera that they have never layed eyes on posted ludicrous post on internet forums judg............................
     
  112. d_g

    d_g

    Nikon or Canon... Lenses are important too... i'm dreaming of a new 24 TSE as good or even better than the new Nikon PC- E...
     
  113. "Bob has rescued us ..." I don't think he has a pre-production camera yet though...
     
  114. I second dg wish, their 45 & 90 TS-E are excellent glass but the 24 TS-E suffers a little, one of Canon's problems. Lot people mention diffraction will be limiting factor and they are correct. But I also see Canon is upgrading their wide angle 24mm f/1.4L which is a great thing. I'm sure Canon realizes that as they get higher and higher resolution with their camera's they are going to have to start making better lenses, probably why they are coming out with 24mm f/1.4L II. Also have to remember that Carl Zeiss is making lenses now with Canon's mount, which is a awesome thing and should make buyers of these 21MP camera's a happy camper, I know I am.Can't wait to get mine, hopefully before Christmas.
     
  115. http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2086 Vincent Laforet had a copy for a day or so....the video above is the result. You need Quicktime and some decnt speakers to get the full effect. Very cool....especially if you have a small fortune in Canon lenses to use.....heh
     
  116. This is what I was afraid of with the early looks at this camera: everyone critiques and provides samples of the video, not its still capability. The only reason I would buy the 5d mkii if its still capabilities were a distinct improvement over other options, not on paper, but as reviewed.
     

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