How do you meter AI/AI-S lenses with the Z?

Can't speak for Nikon's Z series, but I had the f/1.2 50mm Nikkor on my a7riv the other day, in bright sunlight. It was overexposing @ 1/8000th and 80 ISO. However, the adaptive viewfinder image showed a perfectly exposed image with no sign of saturation.

The adaptive viewfinder/EVF uses the electronic shutter, so it can go to silly high speeds, 1/32000 or something equally daft, at least that's how it works on my Fujis. Never had a viewfinder issue with fast (f1.2, f1.4 on a speed booster) lenses in bright sun.

I should have phrased that better in the earlier post. You always have the "meter" info available as a histogram or (I think) bar graph. You can always adjust the exposure based on that if you're in a mode (manual- M) where the camera isn't already doing it for you. There is no time that "meter does not work". None. If you don't like the exposure when the camera is adjusting it for you, you can adjust that too using +/- settings. The view is always live because it's an EVF.

 

You kept talking about the histogram. But I wanted to know if the meter is functioning in A and M mode when using AI/AI-S lens. In A is there does the viewfinder shows the shutter speed chosen by the camera? In M does it has the under/over indicator? I am not interested in how to correctly expose the image. I am interested if the camera can provide metering with AI/AI-S lenses.

M is the only mode you can adjust shutter, all others the camera adjusts shutter and you will only get a 1/125 F--- no meter bar. thats on a Z7

Z6 should be identical. It has no knowledge of the f/ of an Ai/AiS lens, so it can't display it. You just have to look at the ring. Shutter speed will be displayed. BeBu, you talk about metering so let me approach it like this- lets say you wanted to use the Z camera as a lightmeter for some other camera. So you could put it in any mode but M, because P, S and A will all automatically be A when you use an Ai/AiS lens. You set an aperture, looking at the ring on the lens. You look through the viewfinder and note the ISO and the shutter speed. There's your reading. If using the camera as a light meter, you'd probably turn off auto-iso because it would be one more thing that could change. In M mode the process would be similar, but the camera (with auto-iso off) won't be adjusting anything. You'd adjust the aperture and shutter speed for correct exposure, probably using the histogram, and those would be your settings. Histogram is essentially the meter reading. You'd interpret it just like over/under indicators, but it gives you way more information. I don't know if the bar graph is ever available with Ai/AiS lenses. It seems to show up beside the histogram if the light level is very low. You also need setting d8, that applies settings to live view, to be ON. I don't know if Mark meant he only sees 1/125, but I see the shutter speed change as it should in all modes. So, the bottom line is the "meter" always works if you have settings turned on in the viewfinder or display panel. OTOH, if you're looking specifically for an over/under light, or a bar graph, no, that's not how they give you the meter information. You get histogram, shutter and, if you read it off the ring, aperture.

Thanks Conrad!

Let me recap to make sure I understood.

With an AI lens attached via the FTZ the aperture is whatever you set on the aperture ring. If you set to any mode except M it would function as ie f it's in A mode and display the shutter speed it chooses.

In Manual mode there is no indication whether the meter thinks you set correctly or not.

BeBu, you seem to be histogram resistant and the last sentence is not correct. In manual mode the histogram tells you if you've set the exposure correctly. BTW, I checked Thom's book and the bar graph isn't supported with Ai/AiS lenses on the FTZ adapter, as I suspected from my experiments.

BTW, I checked Thom's book and the bar graph isn't supported with Ai/AiS lenses on the FTZ adapter, as I suspected from my experiments.

A rather strange omission.

 

You also need setting d8, that applies settings to live view, to be ON.

Which should give you a good indication of whether the exposure is correct or not. Does the Z6 show the highlight warning "blinkies"? In video mode, there's the "zebras" - which strangely don't work in still mode.

BeBu, you seem to be histogram resistant and the last sentence is not correct. In manual mode the histogram tells you if you've set the exposure correctly. BTW, I checked Thom's book and the bar graph isn't supported with Ai/AiS lenses on the FTZ adapter, as I suspected from my experiments.

I would be happy shooting with no meter at all. My question related to the fact that I said wrongly in the other forum that the Z6/Z7 would meter fine with AI lenses. Now I know that I am wrong because I can't said the histogram is the same a functional meter.

Ah, that's where we disagree. You get two things. You get the shutter speed and aperture for correct exposure, just the same thing a hand held light meter would give you. You also get the histogram, which is a vastly better indicator of exposure than any single number reading or over/under indicator. You just seem stuck on a conclusion that's wrong, or have some definition of a "meter" that's too rigid. Just what, exactly, do you want? I admit that not having the bar graph seems odd, but it isn't missed. Also, for every setting but manual, and even if manual if you turn on auto-iso, you get fully automatic metered operation with the option of altering the setting with the +/- button. Again, WTF do you want it to do that it doesn't do?

FWIW, I tend to turn off most display features because I'm more interested in the image and can't keep track of all the stuff that can be displayed. If I'm using my AiS lenses, I usually shoot manual with auto-iso turned off. If the "meter" doesn't work, why are all my shots perfectly exposed? Because I watch the histogram. I don't normally use the playback info screens, but if you want to turn on the various options, you can see the highlight warning after the fact, along with RGB histograms, settings and most anything else you might want to know. Again, way more info than I have need of, plus it's on an image already recorded, so you'd have to shoot again. No biggie with digital, but I'd only work that way with macro or technical stuff, usually on a tripod.

OK, I'm going to say you're basically right and I'm wrong! As you can see, I'm a big histogram user. In most situations it gives you the best information. Now, AFAIK the histogram is taken from the entire image. That's what Nikon has allowed us to see with Ai/AiS lenses. When you set the metering to matrix or spot or whatever, the camera will set exposure based on that. You see the result in the image and in the histogram. I don't see any way to set say, spot metering, and see a reading from just that spot in auto-iso-off manual mode. Auto modes, yes, but not manual. It seems like they could do it with a firmware upgrade, but it's not there yet. Edited October 11, 2020 by conrad_hoffman

I'm a big histogram user

Probably because my main area is avian photography, I hardly ever consult the histogram. For 99.99% of my shooting, I have the same setup: matrix metering, M mode, AutoISO on; exposure compensation dialed in as needed and determined by a combination of experience and checking a recorded image for highlight blinkies. Quite frankly, after Nikon finally implemented easy access to AutoISO settings (no need to dive into the menu)l they could have eliminated A, S, and P (which I never use anyway). I should get in the habit to look at the RGB histograms when shooting, for example, landscape - but habits are hard to break. The exposure bar graph that Nikon choose to not display on the Z6/Z7 when non-CPU lenses are mounted is something I tend to "ignore" on other cameras - simply because in most cases it is hard for me to see.

 

can't keep track of all the stuff that can be displayed

Same here. Did Nikon finally implement via firmware update a "clean" EVF image that's not obscured by any overlay information?

OK, I'm going to say you're basically right and I'm wrong! As you can see, I'm a big histogram user. In most situations it gives you the best information. Now, AFAIK the histogram is taken from the entire image. That's what Nikon has allowed us to see with Ai/AiS lenses. When you set the metering to matrix or spot or whatever, the camera will set exposure based on that. You see the result in the image and in the histogram. I don't see any way to set say, spot metering, and see a reading from just that spot in auto-iso-off manual mode. Auto modes, yes, but not manual. It seems like they could do it with a firmware upgrade, but it's not there yet.

 

I don't own a Z and I told someone that the Z would meter fine with AI lenses (I made a guess as my Df can meter with pre AI lenses) but for that I am wrong and that's why I asked people like you with a Z to verify. I am not asking on how to get correct exposure with AI lenses on the Z.

Have to be very specific with wording. The Z does meter fine with Ai lenses, except for one single case- manual mode with auto-iso off. Otherwise, it uses whatever meter method you've chosen, matrix, spot or center weight. In the A mode a bar graph wouldn't do any good because the camera would always force it to read zero.

 

Dieter, I don't think you can get rid of everything, just minimize it. I remember in my film days my favorite Nikon screen was the "D". It had nothing to obscure the image, no lines, no circles just plain matte ground glass.

Thanks Conrad.

The Z does meter fine with Ai lenses, except for one single case- manual mode with auto-iso off.

It appears to be actually a bit more complicated than that. The missing exposure bar graph is really unfortunate. But the D8 setting also plays into this. If set to ON, the image visible in (on?) the EVF allows you to judge exposure directly and the histogram (actually derived from the EVF image and not directly from the sensor image) can be displayed. Neither, as you pointed out correctly, should be called metering. If D8 is OFF, then AFAIK the histogram disappears (correctly, as the EVF image now does no longer correctly reflect the brightness of the sensor image) - so now there's really no "metering" of the scene at all in M mode with AutoISO off - the camera cannot display any exposure information even if it technically can (and possibly does) meter the scene. Pretty much the only indication that metering might be going on is to look at the ISO value (having set it to the base (minimum) ISO beforehand. If it stays at base ISO, then you are at least not underexposing - if it starts moving, you are. Overexposure is not indicates though - until you either change aperture or shutter speed and the ISO moves off base ISO. Makes you really wonder why Nikon isn't simply showing the exposure bar graph. In any case, Nikon certainly doesn't offer the best possible solution to those who want to adapt lenses (not only pre-Ai, Ai, and Ai-S but any non-chipped lens) onto their Z cameras at this point.

One does wonder what they were thinking.

One does wonder what they were thinking.

Why?

Haven't tried the latest firmware upgrade yet, but they claim to have fixed the exposure indicator in manual mode!

OK, tried it on the Z6 and sure enough, the exposure bar is there on M and works great. All the video changes I'll probably never use.