Buying Leica M8 in 2017--does it make sense?

Don't forget your cell phone.

 

I don't.

 

I have many images from my...err (sorry not a iPhone ) Samsung G7 im very pleased with. Then I've got many images from my M8 Im very pleased with.

 

 

Using a Leica or the Samsung G7...or, Iphone does mean you have a hairy chest.

M8

Samsung G7

Wow!you have posted many times and excepted that any a7 variation is no match for a DSLR for sports and action photography. Methinks you have been eating too many fairy cakes, Edward.

 

Do you have to be so insulting? You had an A7ii in your hands for a few days and you're an expert? The A7ii has 117 phase detection sensors, compared to 399 in the A7Rii. The difference is like night and day, and the A7ii is not exactly a slouch. In fairness, the manual does not tell you how various options interact, often negatively. That's when experience counts.

 

My Nikon D3 is better with continuous focusing with tracking, assuming you can lock on to a subject. For single-servo focusing, my Sony A7Rii is faster, unless you use the live view mode or silent shutter mode. Even in silent mode, it is good enough for relatively stationary subjects. Sony has facial recognition, eye recognition and smile recognition, which are great to use for portraits and photos of active children. You can train it to recognize certain faces, and it will find that face in a group.

 

Tracking is interesting. A Nikon will track a selected object, and drop it if it moves outside the focus matrix, then find another object. The Sony, in normal tracking mode, will wait, if the subject moves out of the frame, until it reappears or you release the shutter button and acquire a new subject. The focus area on a FF Nikon is about 25% of the screen. In a sony, coverage is over 80%

 

There are two types of autofocus adapters. Some use a focus detector in the adapter, newer versions use the AF detectors in the Sony imaging sensor. The best reported results are with a Canon adapter and lenses. There are also Nikon AF-S adapters, even AF adapters for Leica mount lenses (focus at infinity, let the mount do all the work)..

AF adapters for Leica mount lenses (focus at infinity, let the mount do all the work)..

From my understanding I'd need to pre-select one of 3 zones with a 135mm's focus ring, since the AF adapter hasn't much draw to offer?

I'm curious about Sony's 3rd generation and what it will improve.

 

Enjoy your M8 @tomleoni !

"Wow!you have posted many times and excepted that any a7 variation is no match for a DSLR for sports and action photography. Methinks you have been eating too many fairy cakes, Edward.

 

Do you have to be so insulting? Edward".

 

"if you want "garish," there are JPEG modes which will accommodate you. For adults, there are other options". Edward.

 

Hmm, the Sony A7 is a real proper camera especially for adults...only a child would like the err garnish colours of....Just thought you were enjoying a bit of banter Edward sorry if my comments offended. Sort of got confused when you were claiming the A7 was the new super sports camera a lot better than a Nikon/Canon DSLR which most pros use.

 

 

 

 

"I'm not trying to proselyte for Sony in a Leica forum, but that's the evolution I've gone through, and the reasons I think it was a good choice". Edward.

 

 

 

Come on Edward....really. Its rare a M post does not have Edward expelling the virtues of the a7. You often pop over to the Nikon forum from time to time:)

 

"Buying Leica M8 in 2017--does it make sense?...the actual post",Edward.

 

 

 

Yes, if you like the rangefinder expeience there are few other options at the price point.You also have to take into account its a 10 year old cam and parts might be difficult to source...although Leica are good at keeping older cams going and offer gererous trade ins.

 

 

 

It is a simple camera to use f8 and you are there. and still takes technically great images; to my mind second to non.

I bought an M8.2 for $4 K several years ago. I sill have it for B & W and IR. Excellent camera!

Spring 2017 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

Spring 2017 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

I still use mine a lot, if I ever sell it: will have some unique lenses that are custom-shimmed just for it.

Buying M8 in 2017-- does it make sense?"

 

No.

It makes more sense than buying a rangefinder lens for a Sony camera.

I wish I'd seen this thread earlier, but there's an interesting discussion about the M8 here. If there's one thing the M8 can do is great B&W and especially easy handheld IR. Just throw on a R72 filter, set ISO to 640 and you're good to go.

 

I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of an M8, but the M9 has two options to tame the shutter release. A "Soft Release" changes the standard 3-stage release (take-up, set exposure, shutter) to two stages, mimicking the feel of an M3. The "Discrete" option delays shutter winding until you let up on the shutter release button. It's no quieter than normal, but less obtrusive than the immediate click-wind action, and lets you put the camera down or delay winding to where the noise might be less noticeable. This mimics the operation of an M3, where you might delay winding the film to a more opportune moment.

 

Nonetheless, a digital M is not a quiet camera compared to one of the film Leicas, most mirrorless cameras or even a Canon 5Diii. In modern terms, an M3 is not particularly quiet either.

makes more sense than buying a rangefinder lens for a Sony camera" Brian

Really; compared to the comparably priced pre-owned Sony A7 mark II

So you're okay with:

1. Focus shift errors,
   
2. Rangefinder device error,
   
3. IR filters necessary in order to shoot color,
   
4. A 10MP relatively low resolution cropped sensor,
   
5. Solid, no "Image Stabilization" sensor or lens feature,
   
6. Poor 'review' LCD screen resolution,
   
7. Non-OEM battery replacements,
   
8. Low count buffer & SD card capacities,
   
9. Firmware, parts & service support availability issues...
   

Really? At least the M9 is currently still a yes, but the M8 is an illogical 'roll of the dice'...

Edited April 19, 2017 by Gus Lazzari

I would recommend an hot mirror filter to shield the M8 from infrared. Tiffen makes one with good coatings in their higher end series. An hot mirror filter uses an interference principle, with little or no effect on visible light transmission.

I used Leica M2/M3 cameras exclusively for 35 years. My first SLR was a Nikon F3, purchased used in 1999. While I appreciate the quality of Leica cameras and lenses, I have no illusions regarding its shortcomings in actual use. If the OP wants a Leica and can afford it without undue stress, it's not a bad choice, but a limited one. I think the M9, being full-frame, is more useful than the M8, and a couple of years newer, but $1500 v $3000 is a factor which cannot be ignored, particularly if the rangefinder experience doesn't work out. I've also uses a Leica IIIF extensively, with screw mount lenses. If you can abide that primitive viewfinder, a Leica M of any vintage will be paradise.

 

I bought lenses for the M9 in addition to the lenses I used over the years, which later proved useful on a Sony A7, but I would not recommend buying any rangefinder lens for the Sony when you can buy native lenses which are superior in every way for less money.

Gus- My statement is still true. If you want to buy lenses to adapt for a Sony- get dead-mount SLR lenses like the Konica AR mount lenses. Spending extra money for RF lenses for a camera without an RF cam and a thick filter stack makes no sense whatsoever. If you want to buy the least expensive Digital camera that is optimized for a rangefinder lens, it is the M8.

 

And yes: I have my lenses precisely characterized for focus shift at various F-Stops and I know exactly how much to compensate. Including the 50/1.7 Konica Hexanon, Minolta 50/1.4 MC mount, and Canon 50/1.4 FL mount that I made my own RF cams for.

Cox Farms Fall Festival by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

I'm guessing this is probably the only RF Coupled Konica 50/1.7 AR-Hexanon. No problem with focus shift, accurate from 0.8m to infinity. This lens, with the adapter- under $40. Highly suggest it for mirrorless cameras, or anyone with a leg from a broken tripod that likes to make RF cams.

Why do I get the feeling that unless Im using the latest wiz bang camera Im sort of a stupid person. I get that feeling if Im using a cell phone. Hmm.

 

I always thought its about the photograph.....I just wonder how those old timers managed.

unless I'm using the latest wiz bang camera I'm sort of a stupid person" Allen H.

That's not the message Allen.

I've stated this before, if you already own an M8, then enjoy it. But if you're currently considering the purchase of one, keep in mind of a possible parallel.

What if someone was advising you to buy a 1st generation iPhone; or even a 10 year old Plasma flat screen TV. Who would take that advice ?

Gus, that's a false analogy. Progress is not as simplistic as you seem to believe. Sometimes the older technology is at least as viable as the new. In the case of energy, petroleum is still the best fuel for personal transport. It will not stay that way indefinitely, but today it out-performs everything else.

Gus, that's a false analogy. Progress is not as simplistic" Karim G.

Huh? I feel you've missed the point:

So among other performance & support issues, you wouldn't be concerned with the "simplistic" fact of the age of a non replaceable battery in an 'old' iPhone? And should something go wrong, a 100% repair refusal rate.

Or simplistically speaking, the hours of a 'cooked' screen & electronics of a heavy energy guzzling 'old' plasma TV? And should something go wrong, also a 100% repair refusal rate.

 

The fact is that the price has come down tremendously on both of these particular examples. All the while performance, weight and efficiency has progressed by many 'generations' on their proceeding models...

Life Lesson: On any of these extreme examples (Including the M8), purchase only if it's a BARGAIN/STEAL...

You are not wrong. But the free market has set a price for the M8. It's not likely that you're going to get a bargain. ;-)

The M8 was a $5000 camera when new, one in really good condition, relatively low use at 20K clicks or so, $1000 would be a good price now that the M10 is out and the M9 has dropped to the $2000 range. Much more than $1200- I would go for the M9. I have both, and the M Monochrom- so no need add another M8 or buy an M10. Having 1/8000th second shutter speed is useful for shooting wide-open in bright light.

 

My M8: zero Defect sensor, I use it with M8RAW2DNG exclusively. The Dynamic range of the M8 sensor is 3dB greater than the M9, probably due to more need to thin the sensor for the full-frame format. About 20K clicks, and 8 lenses custom shimmed and adapted for it.

It is still a great camera. In a right hand and also with a lucky buy to find a least used m8 will be a blessing.

But there's one thing more inportant thing to consider.

Ddon't buy a M8 but a M8.2 or M8.2U ( an upgraded version ) to avoid further worries about the shutter breakdown due to highest shutter speed at 1/8000.

So all the M cameras reliable shutter speed is limited to 1/4000. It was stablished by Leica when they upgraded m8 into M8.2 and it was continued om all M camera.s up to the present. I have gone through that and still my M8.2U is a great camera for me.