Nikon D7500 announced

It's a step forward not backward. Better off forgetting about those old MF lenses besides without the AI tab I think it's possible to use even pre AI lenses on it. No meter but so what?

 

Really? I bet you didn't know that a lot the newer Nikkors were actually AIS lenses converted to AF. And just because they are older does not mean they are inferior. My AIS lenses will still be performing flawlessly 20 years from now, long after all of the current AF models are collecting dust in a closet or filling space in a landfill.

Really? I bet you didn't know that a lot the newer Nikkors were actually AIS lenses converted to AF. And just because they are older does not mean they are inferior. My AIS lenses will still be performing flawlessly 20 years from now, long after all of the current AF models are collecting dust in a closet or filling space in a landfill.

The AI coupling is certainly a step or two backward. You're are still using the old lenses that's good and I am using those AI lenses too but that's still backward. I didn't say backward is bad or forward is bad. The AI coupling is backward. Fully electronic coupling like the new E lenses are forward.

The AI coupling is certainly a step or two backward. You're are still using the old lenses that's good and I am using those AI lenses too but that's still backward. I didn't say backward is bad or forward is bad. The AI coupling is backward. Fully electronic coupling like the new E lenses are forward.

 

Again you missed the point. In leaving it out of their presumptive DX flagship they are alienating a lot of loyal Nikon users who still DO use AIS lenses. Canon really screwed a lot of their loyal users when they changed mounts and made it nearly impossible to use some very fine Canon FD lenses. That is backward.

presumptive DX flagship

The D7500 is not the DX flagship, the D500 is. And the D500 does have the Ai follower tab.

 

By eliminating the Ai tab, the D7500 has now joined the ranks of the D3x00 and D5x00 bodies (and the Dx0 bodies before) that do not allow metering with non-CPU lenses; it is currently the most expensive Nikon DSLR that doesn't come with full Ai compatibility. It clearly is a cost saving measure (and probably also a step taken to distinguish the D7500 more from the D500 as well as pushing those who need that tab towards FX). It appears quite logical now that the D7000/D7100/D7200 only got the Ai tab because at the time, Nikon had given up on continuing the D200/D300/D300S line and the D7x00 were considered the DX flagships. In a sense, the omission of the Ai tab in the D7500 puts the camera squarely back into the Dx0 lineage (whose latest camera had been the D90). Or in other words, the D7500 is not the exception; the D7000/D7100/D7200 were.

One factor is that as time goes by, older manual focus lenses matter to fewer and fewer DX users (focusing manually can be challenge with the smaller viewfinder) and most new MF lenses (PC-E Nikkors and manual focus Zeiss and other third party lenses) come with CPUs. Further, in some communities of enthusiastic manual focus lens users, chips have been made to provide functionality of CPU with contacts. The AF-S lens lineup is now very comprehensive and AF lenses are fully supported by the D7500. I think most manual focus Nikkor users probably prefer FX anyway, to have the lens do its designed task and to have that larger viewfinder. All of Nikon's FX DSLRs provide Ai metering support. Each camera is made with certain demographic in mind, Nikon studies what the users of a particular type of camera value the most. They might not always do that successfully but I genuinely believe that most users of this type of a camera probably already mostly use AF lenses. There might be some older hangout which the user has kept. I would advise to check out chipping information e.g. at nikongear.net to see what kind of modification users there have come up with to make Ai(-S) lenses equpped with CPU functionality.

 

I think quite a lot of this negativity towards the D7500 is because people are afraid Nikon might reduce functions from other cameras as well (D610's and D750's successors). I would take it easy regarding that; Nikon is aware many FX users still have manual focus lenses without CPUs and want to use them. They are so aware that they even made the Df which is targeted to this group of users.

D7500=solution looking for a problem. Still see it as a likely dud, thoughtlessly positioned in a shrinking DSLR market by a company that seems tone-deaf.

Actually some long term perspective helps. A few years ago there were quite a lot of complaints that Nikon was only offering one fast DSLR, the D4/D4s and at lower prices the frame rate was capped at around 6-6.5 fps and the raw buffers were not that large, either. This was said to be a problem for people who wanted to get into sports and wildlife photography. A couple of years later there is the 10fps D500 (200 NEF burst depth) and now there is the 8fps capable D7500 (50 NEF burst depth) at a lower price but with some reduction in features. Nikon does listen to customer requests but sometimes it takes a few years to get the products ready. The D7x00 family have always gotten criticism at launch for whatever feature Nikon left out but then in practice they've sold very well. I realize the D7500 is not offering what c_watson wants but I think the D7500 is a perfectly reasonable product that offers good value. A lot of people can afford this class of a camera but not the D500. Though now there appear to be some deals on the D500 to make it less expensive at least temporarily. Several years ago I complained that Nikon put a lot of emphasis on very high end fast telephoto lenses with numerous updates on the 300/2.8 etc. but they didn't make anything modern with a reduced maximum aperture but still high quality.

I felt a good reason to make such products was the easier utilization due to improved high ISO image quality.

Since then Nikon has come out with the outstanding 70-200/4, the unbelievably compact and for the aperture, very fast and reliably focusing (when used without TC) 300/4 PF, the 80-400/4.5-5.6 and the 200-500/5.6. In a way they cater to some of the same buyers as the D7500/D500 although all of them are FX lenses, there are benefits in using DX in those applications. I would be surprised if increased lens and camera options offered now would not lead to improved sales. Though perhaps the decline is mainly in the entry level D3400 sector. Canon DSLR sales have been increasing so there is market to conquer.

 

c_watson, what would you like Nikon to make that solves a photographic problem that you can not solve with existing equipment, and one that you'd buy for your own use? I have not been able to see what it is from your previous posts. I think to find a solution, one should keep a clear objective in mind (in terms of what kind of a photographic image you want to create).

It appears from what I read that the D7500 will not have stop down metering, and will meter the same as the D3x00 and D5x00 models. That includes no aperture ring use with older AF lenses either, since it has the minimum aperture switch.

 

I find metering with the D7100 rather handy, but must reiterate that in the digital age, with histogram feedback and the ease of bracketing, it's not that horrible to go meterless. My favorite prime lens on the D3200 has long been a meterless preset 35, and though it takes a little longer to get the first exposure right, it's quite functional, and one does get the advantage of being able to use pre-AI lenses without conversion.

 

I don't know how many people will find that a deal killer, but I'm guessing not all that many. I suspect that Nikon is guessing that very few people use manual lenses with the DX format these days, and that of those who do, many will cuss a bit at the cost cutting, but find that the inconvenience is relatively small.

I don't think not supporting MF lenses fully is a deal killer. If you are into MF then either the D7200 or better yet the D750 which is only $1500 now is a better deal. Using MF lenses you wouldn't need very high frame rate and having an FX is better because all the MF lenses are for FX and they may not have the resolution needed for DX.