Any still camera that can take films designed for 8mm or 16mm movie formats?

<p>Hi!</p>

<p>I'm thinking of doing some creative filmmaking projects. I'm more of a still photographer but have gotten into dslr filmmaking in recent years. I still have 35mm, 6x6, and 4x5 cameras. But I want to go in the other direction and learn what a very small neg can hold with a variety of processing techniques. For this type of project, I can afford to shoot 8 or 16mm film (preferably 8) and I'm pleased to find a variety of quality film stocks available locally in LA.</p>

<p>Is there any still camera system that can accommodate some of these film stocks? It would be used purely to get to know the stocks themselves. I was hoping to find something like a spy camera that would take them. I would be willing to load the film in a darkroom, though the convenience of a canister system is desirable.</p>

<p>Googling for this seems to be a rabbit hole. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_format#Still_photography_film_formats doesn't really have any direct correlation without deeper study.</p>

<p>Comments from anyone with firsthand experience would be especially helpful.</p>

<p>Ah may have just found my answer here http://www.photo.net/black-and-white-photo-film-processing-forum/00bhtA - finally learned what to search for.. :D</p>

<p>Minolta, Mamiya, made small well designed, using adjustable f stops, shutter speeds using cassette contained 16mm film. Pentax 110 was a great system with interchangeable lenses, 18, 24, 50, 70 and a zoom. These cameras are readily available on the popular mega auction site and allow you to pursue this project.</p>

<p>@paul wow super interesting. Thanks! 110 does seem like the way to go.</p>

<p>things have chaned a lot in the last few yeaqrs.<br>

there are several issues. I will mention a few in A GENERAL MANNER.<br>

8MM -ACTUALLU DOUIBLE 8-16MM STOCK THAT IT RUN TWICE THRU THE CAMERA AND SPLIT LENGTHWISE AFTER DEVELOPMENT.<br>

fuji used to make single 8= already sp[lit.<br>

double 8 differs from 16mm stock as the perforations are dfoubled.<br>

years ago som,e reperforated and if not done correctly the p[rojected image jittered.<br>

secons a typical movie cam,era has a shutter that is a disk wiuth a slot. at 16 fps<br>

exposure is 1/30. meaning slow iso film must be iused.<br>

iso 10-25. the slowest today is 50-100/<br>

su[per 8" might be easier to deal with p[erfs are smaller.<br>

18 mm film may ne easier to deal; with <br>

there is no reperf ever causing problem,s.<br>

many better 16mm movie cameras accepted 100 foor rolls<br>

and better 16 mm cameras had a variable shutter ( adjustable shuter_ so the film could be exposed with a shutter speed greater then 1/30<br>

160 or faster// remeber the shutter speed inmcvreases as the frames per second rate is increased/<br>

so even many simple old 9mm movie caz,meras can shorted the ecxposure time<br>

at 16 fps and 1/30 you het 3-4 minutes of movies/</p>

<p>as you run ay 32 or 64 fps the exposure time is shorter allowing thge use of faster film<br>

bnut the same 3-4 min of movies is in slow or very slow motion.</p>

<p>next most movie fim has a black anti-hal;ation backling.<br>

this is hard to remove. <br>

the chemicals for e-6 slide film may or may not wotk properly withj m,ovie fiolm.<br>

I thinmk negativ movie fil; that has an orage base is easier to deal with but must be profesional;l <br />printed" on anoyjr strip of fil before being projected/<br>

I think tyhat this film, is closer to regular<br>

film such as kodacolor or fujkicolor.<br>

so overall is is not si,mple.</p>

<p>you may wish to experiment with "short ends"<br>

purcvhased from hollywood movie film dealers.<br>

again I do not know exactly what <br>

you want to do<br>

help-- I can hardly see the keys.</p>

<p>Dave, The Pentax Auto110 is a super little system. Another very good alternative is the Minolta 110 SLR. The Mark II is better designed. Larger than the Pentax, but has a fixed ZOOM. Enjoy!!</p>

<p>Look at the Minox forum here. As you have figured out, "spy" cameras generally used 16mm film.110 cameras won't do you any good -- the film is 16mm wide but the performations were different.<br /><br />Kodak's 16mm motion picture stocks are the same as their 35mm stocks, so it might be easier to just buy some short ends of 35mm stock and shoot them in a 35mm SLR.<br /><br />Motion pictures processes are different than still picture processes, so you need to take the film to a movie lab. They are used to processing short lengths for testing purposes, but might not be set up for doing a five-foot strip from a still camera. Might be just as easy to get a Bolex and a 100-foot roll of 16mm stock and just shoot is sparingly. At least that way you can go to the lab with the kind of roll they expect.<br /><br />A great resource is American Cinematographer magazine. It has detailed articles each month on major Hollywood movies currently in production, including specifics on camera, lenses, film, any special processing, lighting, etc. You will find, of course, that the majority of films today are being shot on digital, not film. <br /><br /></p>

<p>@Craig - Interesting. I did not know that 110 perforations were different from 16mm motion picture film. My objective is mostly to understand the single-frame processing options and their aesthetic impact. I intend to be my own lab at the outset, with variety of chemicals.<br>

Getting a bolex sounds like a great idea. I was DP on a short using an Arri 16srii, a big 18lb sucker that takes even more effort than my 4x5. It might be nice, however, to have something light enough to stick to the end of a monopod and comfortably stroll thorough a park. Looks like some bolex cams weigh only 5 lbs, which is about what our 5D weighs with a good prime.</p>

<p>A couple of years ago I got a 100-foot roll of Eastman 7231 Plus-X (black and white) 16mm movie film on the auction site and shot a few 22" rolls in my Minolta 16 (early model) and Kiev 30m cameras.</p>

<p>The film is double perforated. The holes show a bit on the Kiev image frame (see image below), but not on the Minolta image frame.</p>

<p>I developed them in Kodak HC-110 in a plastic tank with an adjustable reel that collapses down to 16mm/110 size, and scanned the negs on my old Epson 3200. Spooling the cassettes is a bit tedious, but it was fun to see what kind of results are/were possible with those miniature cameras.<br>

<br /> <strong>Kiev 30M (Mission Espada, San Antonio, Texas)</strong><br /> <a title="3a by Scott, on Flickr" href=" src="https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4050/4657476032_b64b33df31_z.jpg" alt="3a" width="512" height="640" /></a></p>

<p><strong>Minolta 16 (Tainan train station, Taiwan)</strong><br /> <a title="16mm by Scott, on Flickr" href=" src="https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3263/2743751717_eea0f3233a_z.jpg?zz=1" alt="16mm" width="640" height="466" /></a></p>

<p>Lots of still cameras used 16mm film.<br>

My own favorite was the Goerz Minicord (made in Vienna after WW2), a twin lens reflex with f:2.0 lens. It had cassette to cassette feed, which were loaded by shoving perforated 16mm film into the slot of the cassette -- all-in-all a much more usable system than the Minox.</p>

<p>My recommendation, based on experience, is that the Minolta 16II is the most useable of the 16mm cameras. The main bug in the 16II is the focus is fixed at 2.5MM (98 inches). For my use I found the aux lens set to be necessary, especially for long distance pictures. The set is three diopter lenses labeled #0, #1 and #2 that bring focus to;<br /> #0 10M (33 feet)<br /> #1 1.3M (51 inches)<br /> #2 .75M (30 inches)<br /> As usual depth of field can also be controlled with aperture. These cameras are quite reliable and are usually found in working condition for little money. The aforementioned lens sets are much harder to source and are often more expensive than the camera when found on e-bay. Kodak still list Eastman Double X, 16mm single perf in 100 ft. and 400 ft. length but the price of the film keeps going up. I think about paid about $38 with shipping for a 100 ft roll direct from EK about 3 years ago. The catalog number is 7222. That is enough for 60- 20exp rolls. You also have to be prepared to buy NOS film, dump the old film out of the cartridge and reload cartridges yourself. The film was discontinued in 1992 and there are no fresh factory loaded cartridges of film. The only practical way is to process the film yourself. B&H Photo still sells a Yankee brand tank with plastic reels that will adjust to 16mm, it's cheap but usually works well enough.</p>

<p>This is not a format for the faint of heart or pocketbook. By the time you are all done setting up with camera, film, developing tank, chemicals, etc. your bill will probably be well north of $150 and if you are not used to doing your own B&W at home there will also be that learning curve to deal with as well. Just a heads up.</p>

<p>Dave -- My reference to a Bolex was assuming that you wanted to shoot movies and were just doing single frames to save on film costs while testing. If all you want to do is shoot stills, then the Minox is all you need. But the Bolex is still a fun camera. If you want a light, compact movie camera in 16mm, check out a Canon Scoopic. But I'm sure i'm not saying anything you don't already know -- if you've shot with an SRII, you know your way around movie cameras and movie film.<br /><br />110 is 16mm wide but the perfs are a different shape, size and orientation that either single perf or double perf 16mm. It also has a paper backing, and comes (came) in a plastic cartridge that was not built to be reloaded. I'm sure there's a way to get 16mm film into one, but a Minox would be much easier.<br /><br /><br /><br /></p>

<p>Lomography sells both color and B&W negative 110 film, both available through Amazon.</p>

<p>But if you want movie film, the spy cameras are probably the best choice.</p>

16mm viewfinder cameras: Wirgin Edixa 16, Meopta Mikroma, Gami 16

smallest 16mm camera: Italian SCAT

16mm Twin lens reflex camera : Goerz Minicord

16mm slr Soviet Narciss camera