Making new camera recommendations

<p>All too often when someone new to photographer posts a question looking for a camera recommendation, many people post a recommendation that they should go to a camera store store and hold the camera until they find one that is right to them. I believe I might have even told a few people this myself.</p>

<p>Now whenever I read a recommendation like this, it makes me cringe because how does the new photographer define what is "right to them". As they are new to photography, they don't know what a camera is supposed to feel like. Their experiences will be biased based on their experiences in using a P&S or some other measure but I don't know how these people are supposed to find a camera that feels right. I believe that this is dangerous advice because people may make the wrong decision based on something totally subjective.</p>

<p>Here is another point of view. Instead, I believe that the discussion should be about how are they going to use the camera, the differences between the main two ecosystems (Nikon and Canon) and the pros and cons of breaking away and going with another systems (e.g., Pentax or Sony), their total budget including everything that they will need to spend (as we all know, the price of the camera is only the beginning), whether full frame or 4/3 is appropriate, etc.</p>

<p>Do others agree or am I out here by myself?</p>

I think the risk is always getting too technical to make sense to a beginner, or using so much tech speak you inadvertently

talk somebody into spending a lot more than necessary. On boards like this, somebody who wants to take occasional

family photos and would do just fine with a mid grade point&shoot can come away with the impression that its impossible

to take a decent photo without at least a 5Diii and f/2.8 zoom.

<p>I think that by holding the camera, they can see which model fits their hands the best and feels the most comfortable. They may not know what it's "supposed" to feel like, but they will easily be able to tell which feels more comfortable if they hold different bodies. Finding a camera that is comfortable in the hand is probably the biggest consideration when it comes to entry level DSLRs, since most have essentially the same features. The body has little impact on the end use as far as subject matter goes...that's more of a lens issue. Assuming that the body/system choice has an impact on subject matter, they may buy the perfect body for the intended use, but if it is uncomfortable for them to hold, the camera won't come out of the bag or closet. For someone starting out, sacrificing on the optimal body makes sense when ergonomics will have a bigger impact on whether they use the camera or let it sit.</p>

<p>To your point, however, another common question is "what do you want to do that your current camera can't meet that need?" This could help guide the discussion beyond ergonomics (if there's a difference) without getting too technical.</p>

<p>The problem, Barry, is that you're suggesting they contemplate a matrix of options that include what add up to thousands of combinations of priorities, features, and budget points. And what <em>is</em> the point of wading through all of that analysis if the outcome is that one make/model barely looks marginally better in theory (based on a beginner's no doubt short-sighted thoughts about how they'll use the camera) ... but which turns out to physically fit the hand in a poor way?<br /><br />These things are software driven, in part. A beginner should be able to pick up an entry-level camera body and not find the menu system to feel hostile or immediately bewildering. A slight improvement between bodies on that front might completely eclipse the tiny benefit of the way one maker's lens selection infinitesimally better suits the photographer over the next. Almost every camera in a given price range is going to be as good as the next, in every way that meaningfully matters to someone who is as much a blank slate as the person you're describing. The lenses, bodies, processing and output are all far more capable of image quality than are the newby photographers looking for a first camera.<br /><br />So it really <em>does</em> come down to ergonomics. People who've never bought a serious set of chef's knives before and don't know one type of steel or hardwood from another can also put something in their hand and think, "Wow, that one just feels right."</p>

<p>It isn't exactly common, but we do get "which camera?" queries from people who have often done their homework and have specific questions about capabilities, and so on.</p>

<p>More often, it's just,</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I've decided to go into photography and want to find out which camera I should buy.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>For that kind of question, or even ones slightly more specific, what can you do but</p>

<ul>

<li>try to find out what they really think they want to do</li>

<li>suggest that most modern digital cameras in a particular class (P&S, 'Bridge', dSLR) are for all essential purposes equivalent</li>

</ul>

<p>I don't think the "go to the store and hold it" is off. There are important features such as size and 'feel' that can't be got from pictures or reviews.</p>

<p>I generally don't give any recommendation as I believe only the one who asks the question really knows what is right. If I do give a single recommendation then I said find the one that looks best to you then it's the best. Although it doesn't sound right but many times I made the decision based on that I was right. </p>

<p>Normally it's impossible to answer the question based on the information provided. Usually I don't even try.</p>

<p>But by all means give it a go. I agree with what you say, but unless you have endless time to extract the required information from the poster, I'm not sure how much use any advice is going to be.</p>

<p>Photo.net actually has an article on this topic (or at least an article with the appropriate title), but I'm not sure how useful it's likely to be to the total novice - http://www.photo.net/equipment/digital/choosing Ironically, the article refers to camera reviews as doomed to be pathetically out of date, while the article itself falls into the same trap. I don't know when it was written but I'm guessing around the year 2001. It recommends the Canon D30 for example (yes, the D30, not the much later 30D).</p>

<p>Google returns almost 15 million hits when searching on "choosing a digital camera", but I doubt more than a million of them are of any use...</p>

<p>If a newbie photographer wanted the simplest digital camera with the least amount of nested and complex options buried in its buttons, dials and menu selection system while at the same time providing enough of the essentials for getting decent exposure and color, which camera would that be?</p>

<p>I ask this sort of rhetorically in hopes there's one out there for me because I'm totally confused and bewildered figuring out someone else's digital camera (DSLR and P&S) when they hand me theirs to take their picture because they assume (after I've told them I have extended experience in digital imaging) that I know more than them about their digital camera. I don't. I know my camera.</p>

<p>It was much simpler when I shot 35mm film with a Yashica SLR as a hobbyist back in the '80's where all I needed to know was the ISO/shutter speed dials on top, adjust aperture ring, look through the viewfinder and make sure the exposure arrow was in the middle, focus and push the button. SLR's had options that were pretty much the same in their complexity level.</p>

<p>Tim<br /> <br /> Canon Digital Rebel of some flavor That's pretty much my stock answer for someone providing little information who wants a starter DSLR.</p>

<p>If you want simple just turn the mode dial to the green square and shoot.</p>

<p>I'm sure there are others, though from my experience with Olympus camera menus, probably not ones made by Olympus! Nice cameras (I actually own one), but a rat's nest of a menu system.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Barry, maybe finding the right camera ecosystem is a bit like dating. You might have some notion of what you want, but to know for sure, you really just have to jump in and buy SOMETHING. And then use it for a while. You may find yourself blissfully happy, or you may want to break it off and date a different ecosystem. Start cheap, and don't get too involved until you've found your one true love. Then you can commit to building a system, maybe having a few little lenses and accessories. :-)</p>

<p>Great responses! Everyone brought up a lot of really good points, and quite frankly, a lot of the things you each brought up I was not thinking about so thank you! </p>

<p>I also realize that it is just me but I still don't buy the view that new camera buyers should go with what feels more comfortable since I don't believe that they know what that means at this point. If someone is buying a DSLR but they are coming from using a Canon Elph P&S, they may be looking for the camera with the smallest footprint or one that shares the same Canon menuing system, which may or may not be the best camera for them. </p>

<p>I think the point that many of us shared here is that buying a DSLR for the first time is a complex decision that requires research by the buyer. Part of that research should be actually holding each camera and hopefully taking a few shots with it. I've bought my first DSLR only five years ago and I remember that process well. It was actually a bit over-whelming and I ended up trading up twice in three months. All we can do is give advice based on our experiences and let the buyer decide for themselves.</p>

<p>Some how I never asked such a question. It seemed that I always know what I want. I did do a lot of research.</p>

<p>Actually, I normally suggest that people buy several types of cameras from Ye Olde Auction site and audition them. Take some photos, see how it goes, and keep what you like and sell the rest. It's the cheapest hands-on-research that can be found. Fondling the gear won't work, you need to shoot it and see the results. But then the cameras I usually suggest cost 80 bucks or so. I've found that if you can't get good results w/ a $40 camera, more money isn't going to help.</p>

<p>A suggestion that a "newbie" goes somewhere to hold the cameras makes sense once the usual "what are you going to use it for" has been discussed. Despite the fact that many of us think we bought the right system, or that one is superior to another, I don't believe that is true. The real difference between Nikon and Canon (as an example) are almost trivial, actually. Especially for a new photographer who will likely not use all the features of a camera for a long time to come, if ever. The first and most important thing is that the camera is comfortable to carry around and to use. And that they are happy they bought it and proud enough of it to show it to others. </p>

<p>I give the advice all the time to go a store, as I sincerely believe it is a bigger difference between a Canon and Nikon (or Pentax, or...) than anything. I am sorry it makes you cringe, but I won't stop giving this advice. I've given it to people in real life, and for all of them it helped a serious big step making the decision.<br /> Here's why.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>As they are new to photography, they don't know what a camera is supposed to feel like.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I think this is a false assumption. The first time I hold a DSLR, I did not know what all buttons would be for. But the handgrip balanced well in my hand. I liked the feel it had. Shortly after, I held another brand. The handgrip felt small, cramped and uncomfortable. Holding it for a bit, I felt my fingers cramped - how am I supposed to hold a camera still if my fingers are cramped? So, I bought the big-handgrip-DSLR. When I gave this camera to my mom, she complained how heavy it was. Turned out to be 10 grams more than the DSLR she uses, with which she's fine. The handgrip I liked was too large for her hands.<br /> This is the big point about this advice. It's not understand whether the AF-Dynamic-Mode-Switch is in a logical place - you can't know, and for most users, the button remains largely irrelevant for a long time. It's holding it in your hands and thinking "yes, this fits".<br /> I can learn to navigate a menu; I can learn to set aperture with a ring on the lens instead of a dial, or anything like that. But I cannot learn to uncramp my fingers because the handgrip doesn't fit my hands.</p>

<p>Sure it matters what somebody is going to use the camera for, and it is right to mention the relative advantages of Sony SLT, NEX, M-4/3rd. Sure we can explain which gimmicks in the sales brochure matter, and which not. All valid part of the answer. But also all theory (and a lot of it disputable: how much better for sports is the AF of the EOS-7D versus a Nikon D300s in real life? Is it a really measurable difference? etc. etc. *).<br /> Meanwhile, a camera that does not feel comfortable in the hand, is a camera you will not enjoy using. It will stay at home more and more - a waste of money and possibly a good photographer lost.<br /> Plus none of us can tell anyone else what is right and wrong - it's a purely personal thing. So, there's why I stick with the advice: it is the one thing the person asking the question must do in him- or herself, and it is too often overlooked by those asking.<br /> But it was never meant to be the ONLY answer. It can help reduce the number of candidates quick and easy, but ultimately there can and will be more considerations.</p>

<p>___<br>

(*) My point is more that it often derails discussions into the Model A versus Model B overly technical discussions, which more often than not do not help the OP anymore.</p>

<p>And my apologies for very verbosely repeating what others already said :-D</p>