Looking for an affordable rf camera

<p>I've always wanted a rangefinder but always settled for a slr. I'm looking for a dependable yet affordable camera. What do the forum experts recommend. A fixed lens rf would do but I think I'd prefer something with lens options.</p>

<p>Happy New Year Mark,<br>

It all depends on your budget and if you really need a rangefinder. If you could live without one I recommend the older Bessa T and getting hold of some cheap Russian LTM lens. This could be your starter camera. In time you may like to add an accessory rangefinder and perhaps more modern lenses. <br>

May the light be with you :)</p>

 

<p>At the end of the day, there's a few questions I suggest you ask yourself...</p>

 

<ol>

<li>Do you want interchangeable lenses? If not, you might want to look at the 'seventies Canon, Minolta or Yashica ranges.</li>

<li>If you do want interchangeable lenses, is a good viewfinder vital to you? If not, consider the Soviet Fed, Kiev and Zorki ranges. The Kiev range are particularly good value.</li>

<li>If you want a good viewfinder and interchangeable lenses, how much do you want to spend? The Canon P and 7 models are often quite reasonably priced, the Bessa R series are a little more expensive but have excellent finders and the Leicas are available from bargain to stratospheric prices. (Although I believe that the original M3 has the best finder Leica ever made).</li>

</ol>

<p>I'm talking second hand, of course and this is a purely subjective evaluation based on using these cameras over a 45 year period.</p>

<p>Inexpensive with a really sharp fixed 45mm f1.7 lens - the Yashica Electro 35, bright crisp RF. Also inexpensive, I love the old Ricoh 500/519 series from 1957-58, with their trigger wind underneath the camera. fixed 45mm lenses, from f1.9/2.8. If there's money in your pocket, IMHO nothing beats a M2, M3 or M4 Leica - durable, multi lens capabilities, SLR attachments for greater than 65mm lenses, and generally excellent lenses at wide apertures - I carried my M4 for 43 years, along with many slrs.</p>

<p>As H.P. mentioned, some of the fixed lens rangefinders can be pretty nice. Unfortunately, you start running into things like some of them forcing you to use auto exposure, or not metering when used in manual mode, or using batteries that aren't made anymore. (One addition to the brands he mentioned are the Olympus rangefinders--I had an Olympus 35RC which took very nice photos, even if the front element did look like it had been lightly sandblasted. And there *are* substitute batteries for these cameras available, but they don't work quite as well as the original, mercury-based batteries.)</p>

<p>If you want the real rangefinder experience with the advantage of interchangeable lenses, the Voigtländer line is probably the way to go without getting too madly expensive. The lenses are usually *almost* as good as the Leicas--to the extent you'd likely not notice in normal prints, and they're possibly much better than the SLR lenses you're used to--at a fraction of the price. They, and the bodies, are not quite as nicely built as the Leicas. But they're darned good anyway, and if you buy a Leica body later, you can still use the lenses on it--Leica lenses tend to cost much more, for what they are, relative to the older film bodies.</p>

<p>If you can afford an old Leica M2, say, and a decent Leitz lens, start there, I'd suggest--that kit will keep you going for decades. If your budget is really limited--$500-$600 or so--see if you can't find a second hand Voigtländer body and lens, so you can make sure you like the rangefinder style of shooting...it's not for everyone. Then, you could sort of leapfrog--some day, get a real Leica body and use the Voigtländer lenses, then when you get a bit more cash, start upgrading your lenses to the Zeiss or Leica versions.</p>

<p>There's several ways to go about it, as outlined above--this is the way I'd do it, as some of the Russian or compact cameras might put you off rangefinder shooting, if you're not ready to deal with some of their quirks.</p>

<p>If you want to learn all about your options, check out Stephen Gandy's sight, cameraquest.com. He sells lots of Voigtländer stuff, and if you click on the Classic Camera Profiles link at the top of the page, you can find out much more about some of the cameras mentioned in this thread.</p>

<p>A <a href="http://photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/CanonP.html">Canon P</a>.</p>

<p><strong>Fixed Lens</strong><br>

Ricoh Five-One-Nine<br>

http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00Tigq<br>

Konica Auto S2<br>

http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00QTnF<br>

Ricoh 500G<br>

http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00UimH<br>

Aires 35-III<br>

http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00TLFY</p>

<p><strong>Interchangeable Lens</strong><br>

Canon 7<br>

http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00XHsX<br>

Canon P<br>

http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00ZjJv</p>

<p>Olympus RC is my recommendation. </p>

<p>The "poor person's Leica":<br>

One of the superb Canonet cameras -QL-17 for example.</p>

<p>the only drawback is the need to use zinc-air batteries or other substitution to replace what were originally mercury batteries.</p>

<p>Check the archives to read up on Russian rangefinders. There are numerous informative posts featuring these cameras along with images. The modern Cosina-made Voigtlanders will cost more than the FSU (mostly Russian) rangefinders but might be more user friendly. The Voigtlander Bessa R is a Leica thread mount with a rangefinder that has selectable framelines for 35/50/and I think 90. Rangefinder base if sufficient for up to 90. Mechanical shutter to 1/2000 second and match diode metering. The Bessa T has a rangefinder but you must attach a separate veiwfinder. It possibly has a wider RF base. The Bessa L is the least expensive. Same meter and shutter but no RF or VF. If you primarily want wide to ultrawide (which require separate finders) this could be a low cost entry as I often see mint Bessa L's going for under 100 USD.<br>

I just got a mint CLE with 40mm f2 M Rokkor, but it's not really a budget entry, although it goes for less than most M series Leicas.</p>

A Leica CL with an inoperable meter (common) is reasonably inexpensive for the build quality delivered, and you get to

choose which focal length of interchangeable lens you want to use. Full manual control.

<p>Adding a Minolta 7S to the list of fixed lens rangefinders, BUT I would buy the Konica Auto S2 if you can find one at a decent price.</p>

 

If you're willing to sacrifice interchangeable lens the Konica Auto S2 is a good value. You get shutter priority and full

manual. Full manual even works without the battery.

<p>I've owned several compact rangefinders and used others that were borrowed. My personal favorites were the same as most other folks: the Canonet GIII QL17, the Olympus 35 RC. I had a soft spot for Yashicas since I used one as a kid in the 1960s, but never did commit to buying one years later when they were readily available and cheap during the 1990s.</p>

<p>Nowadays if I wanted a wide angle I'd look for a good used Bessa T or something comparable with a Cosina Voigtlander lens. If you stay below the latest models the prices are pretty comparable to some consumer grade compact RF's like the Canonets, which have become inflated in value. I liked those consumer grade compact RF's during the 1990s because they were cheap and plentiful, not because they were "cult classics" with inflated prices.</p>

<p>Find a fuji mf rangefinder.</p>

<p>What's your budget? Under $100 there's nothing with lens options. In that range, look for the Minolta Hi-Matic 7Sii or the Canonet GIII QL17. I love the Olympus 35 SP but they sometimes go for over $100. Those are the three best in my opinion but the Yashica Electro series has many fans so check them out too. I have never had one that fully worked. </p>

<p>Interchangeable lens: There are Leica CL's and Leitz-Minolta CL's floating around these days for $200-$250. Not often but sometimes. The Canon P is great and will run from $165 to $250 depending on condition and caprice of the seller. More modern and reliable I'd recommend the Voigtlander Bessa R2 which can also be had sometimes for $200+. Great viewfinder, great framelines. For the CL and the Bessa you'll need LTM - M adapters for screwmount lenses which will be the lenses you can afford. These run $20 to $75 used, depending on the maker. (knockoffs, Voigtlander, Leica, in that order of least to most expensive; of the knockoffs, fotodiox are the best. they have a website.) </p>

<p>Lenses: The most affordable wide angles are Voigtlander-- their 21mm f/4, 25mm f/4, 28mm f/3.5 and the 35mm f/2.5 are unbeatable for the price, all can be found for under $400, occasionally well under. 50mm you should look for the Canon 50mm f/1.8, an outstanding lens; also the Jupiter 3 (f/1.5) and the Jupiter 8 (f/2). These are all old lenses and attention must be paid to their condition. Also the two Russian lenses aren't always properly fitted (in terms of lens alignment) for the western screwmounts so if you have trouble with them -- ie all your pictures are out of focus -- that's the problem. It can be easily fixed. The Jupiter 8 in particular is a real little treasure often available for less than $100. The other two should be $200 or below. </p>

<p>Start off with a camera and a 50mm lens and work from there. It's an addictive sport.... </p>

<p>PS I forgot the longer lenses: Leica Elmar-C 90mm f/4 is outstanding and usually less than $300. The Canon 100mm f/3.5 is tiny and amazing; and the Canon 135mm f/3.5 is humongous and a glorious lens. The 85mm Canons (f/1.8, f/1.9, f/2) are famed and alas often pricey. They're also big and heavy, like the 135mm. The Leica 90mm and the Canon 100mm are quite small, and really nice. </p>

<p><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/16744673-md.jpg" alt="" width="680" height="438" /></p>

<p><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/16689232-md.jpg" alt="" width="680" height="448" /></p>

<p>My favorite recommendations are the Canon QL17-GIII and the Konica Auto S2 for autoexposure RFs. Both of these have outstandingly sharp lenses and are pretty solidly built cameras. The Olympus 35RC and Konica C35 are also great compact cameras too. For older, manual RFs, my favorites are the Yashica Lynx 1000 and the Fujica 35-SE. As I said, these are my personal favorites, but there are so many great choices!</p>

<p>I'll add to the votes for the Canonet GIII QL17. I've had two and actually like them better than my Leica M3. (Bigger, brighter viewfinder, less stiffness when focusing but maybe that's because my Leica is older than I am). As for the battery issue mentioned above, the Canonet still operates in full manual even without the battery.</p>

<p>Not sure if you want a very small RF for people or street photography or for prints of size at or below 11 x 14 inches. If not, and you want large print capability and a super smooth, not too large RF camera (like some 35mm SLR cameras in size) with coupled exposure metering, I would suggest a look at a used but clean Mamiya 6 with 75mm f3.5 lens (6x6cm images). Slightly less expensive but more bulky and noisy are the otherwise excellent meterless RF cameras from Fuji which have 6x9cm negatives (there is also a 6x7) and either 65mm or 90mm optics.</p>

<p>Of course, there is no best camera, only the best camera for the budget. If you think RF is for you, then I would highly recommend a Canon P or a Canon VI-L. However, note that it does not have a built-in lightmeter.</p>

<p>Craig, your Canonet has a brighter VF than your M3? Wow. I'd send the M3 to Youxin Ye for a cleaning. In top shape that VF is among the best there's ever been. </p>