PayPal + UPS warning

Derek, Sounds to me like someone stole $1250 worth of equipment from somebody's porch. Maybe it was the person it was delivered to, maybe not. It might not help, but it's free or nearly free to call the local police department where the package was delivered and explain how the package is missing. Now, maybe it's a busy town, and they're understaffed, and wouldn't look into this unless you go there and file a report...but maybe not. Maybe they'd find it worth it to send a car over and ask around, or maybe they've had other calls about the same person. Maybe he's already under investigation, and there's a chance you can get your equipment back.

<p>

Lots of people have the ability and courage to lie to somebody a thousand miles away on a telephone. Far fewer can pull it off eye to eye with someone wearing a badge, who's likely pretty experienced at spotting a lie.

<p>One 'easy' way to fix this, perhaps. Tell UPS the receipent claims the parcel was not delivered. They will attempt to confirm with the recipient directly whether the parcel was received or not. If the recipient denies receipt or they cannot get in touch with him, they will pay the insured amount of the shipment to you.</p>

<p>Have to side with those who've mentioned how truly awful PayPal is.</p>

<p>PayPal gave you the go ahead to ship the items, and then PayPal wanted their money back. They're not responsible for the bad deeds of the buyer, but surely they bear some responsibility here. I gave up using them a few years ago, and miraculously I stopped getting tons of spam and scam attempts. Spend any time at all on security sites and you'll soon learn how bad they really are.</p>

<p>I am sorry to hear that Derek<br>

I use PayPal and knock on the unpainted wood never had a problem but I don't ship UPS I use US Postal services UPS was creating some issues with labels for me so I use our one and only US Postal.</p>

 

<p>"I made an ink order through Atlex and it was shipped by way of UPS."</p>

<p>Ray, that's interesting, because I just had exactly the same problem with Atlex and UPS this month. I only waited two weeks to contact Atlex. They contacted UPS, who contacted me a couple of time before throwing up their hands and saying they couldn't find it. I just got off the phone with Atlex, and their customer service rep said they would re-ship the order - no questions, no hassle. I asked them to use FEDEX this time, and they agreed. This is the first time in three years of dealing with Atlex that I've had any kind of problem.</p>

<p>Conclusion: Atlex: good. UPS: bad.</p>

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<p>I have the buyer send a USPS money order. I cash the money order at the Post Office, and have cash in hand. I mail the package.</p>

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<p>I don't know how you do this, Ebay has made PayPal or a Credit Card the required method of payment and if you put the words "money order" anywhere in the listing they will not let you list it until those words are removed. <br>

I realize that the main problem here is with UPS but, how can you say that PayPal is not at fault when they charge you a fee to provide a service, tell you it is ok to ship, and then change their minds. It seems to me that once they have given you the ok to ship the item, they should have to assume responsibility. After all it is the seller who pays them and not the buyer.</p>

<p>Ok maybe there is an exception to the "no money orders" rule if you are a power seller. And also I realize that paypal shouldn't have to be responsible for the $1250 loss either but, they should be more willing to work with the seller and investigate the problem since they are the ones paying their fees.</p>

I was disgusted to find that same thing, when i had a few items to sell just about a week ago. I haven't used ebay in ages because of the scamming, but decided to give it another try. As i finished up putting in an entry, it came back and told me that I had to provide an electronic method of payment. Well, needless to say, I'll keep the items. Between Ebay and PayPal, it is a scammers paradise. They can keep it!

<p>Let's see... I've been using Ebay to buy and sell, as well as Paypal for all transactions funding, for 9 years now... zero problems. You never should've conducted this transaction in the first place Derek.</p>

<p>Some customers are just sorry, sad, scheming, and thieving lots that you had.</p>

<p>Just an interesting note... I have visited this thread several times and there has been a Payal message at the bottom of the screen on at least a couple of those visits!</p>

<p><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/desktop/paypal.gif?t=1248895501" alt="" width="746" height="532" /></p>

<p>Derek</p>

<p>If you're still reading, what was the lag time between when the items were shown as<em> <strong>delivered</strong> </em> and when the buyer had his bank reverse the transfer?</p>

<p>Cheers.</p>

<p>Paul</p>

<p>I'm definitely saving this thread to pdf.</p>

<p>Everyone's advice and experiences especially Phyllis Crowe's excellent procedural rundown are truly eye opening.</p>

<p>I've never had any problems, yet, with either of the parties mentioned here but then I'm not a power seller or buy or sell that much on eBay. I prefer buying on Amazon if the product is available, but I know that still isn't a guarantee I won't encounter the same situations mentioned here. </p>

<p>Hey, there's a PayPal ad at the bottom of this thread. I feel so reassured.</p>

<p><em>how can you say that PayPal is not at fault when they charge you a fee to provide a service, tell you it is ok to ship, and then change their minds</em><br /><br />Tom: what they are telling you is that the money has satisfactorily landed in your account, and that the source of the money has passed the only kinds of tests they can apply to it - which is invariably <em>the information provided by the bank that the buyer is using</em>.<br /><br />Change their minds? PayPal isn't changing their mind, the "customer" has changed the nature of the transaction by ripping you off (or, UPS has). How is PayPal (or any card processing company, for that matter) supposed to be able to see the future, and know that UPS would drop the ball, or that someone might steal something off a front porch, or that a sophisticated scammer has scammed <em>the bank</em> on which PayPal is relying for verification of addresses, etc? They're not changing their mind. They're responding <em>to the bank</em>, who in turn are responding to <em>their customer who is claiming you didn't deliver</em>. <br /><br />The fee that PayPal is charging you is to cover the cost of the transaction - not the cost of insuring against any possible bad act by a lying customer, or the negligence/accident-proneness of a shipping company or carrier. <br /><br />Again: if you were a retailer doing mailorder business, you'd know that ANY company that handles your payment processing for you is put in exactly the same position. The difference is that merchants who take regular plastic <em>pay far more per transaction</em>, typically, than a casual seller collecting through PayPal... all because of the continual barrage of fraud and shipping problems that result in <em>billions</em> of dollars of chargebacks annually. Welcome to taking electronic money in advance of depending on several moving parts to actually deliver goods to person who may or may not be a thief.<br /><br />If you want to have zero risk, you'll have to pay a whole lot more for it than most merchants are willing to, that's for sure. A couple of extra bucks for delivery confirmation is nothing, in that regard.</p>

<p>I don't expect them to see the future as you are suggesting but, they force you to use their service and then when the buyer complains, you have no recourse with them. As some one said earlier they will not accept a delivery confirmation signature unless it is viewable online. If this is actually the case then what happens when you use the USPS and pay extra to have the item signed for and get a receipt showing that it was signed for and yet they still refund the buyers money? It just seems like if they are going to force you to use their service and charge you to use it, that they should be a little more willing to work with the seller and not always side with the buyer. Like someone else said, if they allowed you to take a money order then the problem would be solved but they have changed their rules so much in favor of the buyer it is almost to the point that if you are not a power seller or have an Ebay store, you are taking your chances even selling on ebay anymore. And to top it all off the guy rips you off for $1250 and you can't even leave him negative or neutral feedback.</p>

<p>William Kahn, thanks for that info. I'm going to email Atlex again and see what happens.</p>

<p>I have bought bought numerous items of value, never sold, I prefer to pay for insurance and signature, the only time that I have had problems is when signature was not required. UPS has gotten real bad about even knocking or ringing the door bell to notify me that an item has been delivered.</p>

<p>i stopped selling on ebay because of this reason. ebay and paypal make a lot of money out of sellers without offering anything in return when things go wrong. i still buy the occassional camera lense on fleabay but insist on paying with postal orders or cheque.</p>

<p>I had paypal tell me I owe them $1,900 for an item that I sent and have perfect doc's for. It was a "chargeback". I don't have the product back (a fairly new D700) I have a credit collection firm on me and I have all the paperwork.<br>

I will never sell on ebay again. ebay of course owns paypal. Trying to get thru to paypal is next to impossible.</p>

 

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I don't know how you do this, Ebay has made PayPal or a Credit Card the required method of payment and if you put the words "money order" anywhere in the listing they will not let you list it until those words are removed.</blockquote><p>

 

Interesting...I didn't know this. Years ago when I used ebay paypal was just an option. Now a requirement? Does that make ebay a bank? If they annoy enough people often, someone will jump in and throttle them. AOL had that happen to them with their "join for free" schemes, which you then couldn't cancel and were billed for. Now they're barely treading water, if that.

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I just bought a nice monitor from an online ad - Craigslist. Traded a couple of emails, called the guy on the phone, drove to his house, shook his hand, tested the monitor, exchanged money/goods and left. It may sound like I'm kidding, but I'm not when I say that I that I trust a complete stranger I just met on the Internet more than I trust ebay. Ebay's primary purpose is to siphon money from people. The typical guy selling things online is just looking for a fair deal. Besides, ebay is so 1990's...