Film reel loading problem:-(

<p>Hi !<br>

I have a problem when I try to load my film on the reel. I use a changing bag for it.<br>

When the film is in the reel and I start to roll it up, then all of a sudden it gets really tight and the film curves/bends. If I continue from here the film will break.<br>

The problem is the same whether I try with 35mm or medium format film.<br>

This never happens when I practice outside the changing bag, so I have no idea what causes this.<br>

It was always like this, I think I rolled it correctly 10 times in my life, out of the more than 100 films I developed. In the end I just get angry and wrap it around the reel. This works ok, but is not exactely the way it should be:-)<br>

The reel is the white plastic vesion.<br>

Someone else out there must have tried it and can help with any advice what so ever that can solve this problem for me.<br>

Thanks.<br>

Sarah.</p>

 

<p>Are you sure you're getting the film into the reel such that the natural curl of the film follows the spiral of the reel? It sounds to me as if you are getting the film the wrong way round, i.e. emulsion side outwards. Second thought - are your reels absolutely bone dry? Do your hands sweat in the bag?<br>

Some 35mm cameras put reverse curl on the film and this can cause loading problems unless the film is rewound into the cassette about 24 hours before you come to process it, but this doesn't happen with 120 film.<br>

I use Paterson plastic reels and have never had a problem.</p>

<p>I have also had this problem at times, but not as consistently as it sounds like you have. When it happens to me, I either wiggle the reel to try to loosen it (which works about half the time), or switch reels (I have two for my tank set-up). Sometimes, I just have to take the reel apart, put it back together and try again. Do you use the plastic reels that have the tongue and groove leader platform or the ones that just assume you can thread it in perfectly with only the little balls on the side? I've tried both and find the ones with the leader platforms work much better (for me, at least).</p>

<p>Maybe you could also try a set of stainless reels, they might work better for you. I know the white reels are supposed to be easier, but I don't care for them an have been using the plain stainless reels for a long time.</p>

<p>Hi Lynn.<br>

Yes I use the one with the tongue and groove leader. I will try all 3 of ýour suggestions:-)<br>

Dave.<br>

Yes I went to town today to try and find one. I could only find it for 35mm. But I ordered one and will see how it is when it arrives. It cant possible be worse:-)<br>

Thanks for your advices.</p>

<p>With plastic reels you can have a problem when the humidity is too high. At a certain moment the film is not going any further. When you're too long with your hands in the changing bag you will get the same problem. The worst are the polyester films. Triacetate are going better.</p>

<p>For sure: Check if the reel is not damaged. With a useless film outside the bag look if it's loading in the right way.</p>

<p> </p>

<p> Try using surgical gloves. they will avoid getting the fim and reel humid in the bag</p>

<p>Also, if you have dunked those reels in Photo-Flo, there may be a scum left from it. Clean them really carefully with a toothbrush and hot water if this is the case.</p>

 

<p>I have noticed with the plastic Paterson style reels if they are subject to photo-flo there is a residue that builds up on the two metal balls that prevent the film from backing up. It seems to cause them to stick, and bind the film from forward or reverse progress. After a dozen or so trips through the development tank I seem to notice this problem. As John has suggested a toothbrush works wonders here. What has worked for me is hot soapy water and a vigorous scrubbing especially the slot area where those metal balls roll, but to also include the full length of the reel as the residue will cause the film to bind as it progresses. If my plastic reels are dry and those metal balls roll back and forth freely, I know they will be good to use and present no problems.<br>

I have also noticed that if my hands are already in the bag and the film starts to bind, most of the time tapping on the sides of the reel gently will cause it to free up. Good luck!</p>

<p>I never scrub my reels, and they have been in use now for 25 years. I just rinse them after use. In my view, scrubbing will roughen the surface of the reels and make them more prone to picking up residues. I use either Paterson Acuwet or Tetenal Mirasol wetting agent - neither of these have ever caused me any problems.<br>

Since your problem only seems to occur in the changing-bag then I'm still inclined to think that moisture is at the heart of it.</p>

<p>Ah, my favorite darkroom mythology: wetting agents and plastic reels.</p>

<p>Travis mentions using "hot soapy water" to clean Photo Flo residue from plastic reels. Photo Flo, like all photographic wetting agents, is a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactant">surfactant</a> . In other words, it does exactly the same thing hot soapy water does, but without the risk of contamination from oils, dyes, perfumes and other unnecessary additives found in virtually every household soap, dishwashing detergent or other cleanser. It would make better sense to clean off the Photo Flo with ... hot soapy Photo Flo.</p>

<p>Or, better yet, just rinse off the reels and tanks after every use with plain warm water.</p>

<p>Any accumulation of residue on plastic reels is more likely to be due to the interaction between soluble components in films, our darkroom chemicals, and possibly even our water. I also suspect that ozone levels are a factor in the degradation of some plastics.</p>

<p>A lively discussions on this issue from last year: <a href="00Qme6">FACT OR URBAN LEGEND? #1: Wetting agents contaminate reels</a> .</p>

<p>I don't doubt that people really are seeing residue accumulation on plastic reels. I've seen it myself on older reels. I only doubt the conventional wisdom that it's caused by Photo Flo or other wetting agents.</p>

<p>Agree with Chris. My reels are that old too and never been cleaned other than a rinse in clean water before being allows to dry.</p>

<p>Before getting a dedicated darkroom I used to use a change bag and in summer used to experience the same issues. One thing I found used to help was to twist the reel sides fast as you load the film... just takes some courage to try it! I did this with a light touch so that if it did stick then I didn't then force it and cause crinkles.</p>

<p>This reminds me why I like my darkroom :)</p>

<p>Cheers, Nige</p>

<p>Lex,<br>

I respect your experience, and opinions a great deal. You have a very good point that any possible residue may not be a result of photoflo at all. I suppose that all the searching and reading here caused me to jump to that conclusion. In reality all I can say with any certainty is in my old plastic reels, even after a good rinsing in warm water there seems to be something causing those small BB's to stick in their tracks. The remedy for my issues have done well with the old toothbrush which allows the BB's to roll freely.</p>

<p>I personally modify my loading technique when it's hotter. I don't sweat a lot but some, and nitrile gloves tend to get stuck as I load the film. So rather than keeping the edge of my hands - the thumb muscle, I guess - which I usually keep right along the edge, keeping the film in track as it heads towards the "tongue" of the loading section, I kind of let the film feed itself in. I have to be a bit more careful to not kink up the film, but less contact with the film makes it doable. I have never washed my reels off with anything other than just some water after developing. Never a problem.</p>

<p>sarah, i use jobo reels. on each half of them, one of the sections lets you walk the film with your fingers. they work like a charm. have you noticed that on your reels?</p>

<p>sarah, i use jobo reels. on each half of them, one of the sections lets you walk the film with your fingers. they work like a charm. have you noticed that on your reels?</p>

<p>Sudden binding may be caused by off-axis alignment; the film is getting started off skewed would be my guess. It's real easy to skew film when you can't see it. If you see the reel, practicing with it in the open, chances are you'll line things up right, using your hand-eye coordination. This could be why you experience it in the dark, but not the light.</p>

<p>If it's off axis, then it'll go for a little while, then pinch. I don't use the plastic reels, not for many years, so I don't know about any problems specific to that equipment. But, misalignment will cause the symptom you describe.</p>

<p>With a stainless reel, sometimes when you get a pinch, you can feel the reel face outside, and notice a track where the film is protruding. Best cure for off-axis is to unspool the film from the reel, adjust to where it feels even, and then reel it in again. On a stainless reel, sometimes you can check your reel loading by giving the film a little push, in towards the reel. You should feel a little give and a stop; this would be about 1/8 inch of movement; the little push-check would be jiggling the film inbetween the tracks. A properly loaded stainless reel will have a little play.</p>

<p>You should not feel any kind of binding or forcing, or anything that would require firm hand pressure, when loading a reel. It should go smoothly, and require no hand strength.</p>

<p>Yes it gets very warm inside the changing bag. I was wondering if that could be the reason. I will try with the surgical gloves.<br>

Or maybe it's off axis. Since I can do it correct every single time outside the bag.<br>

Thank you very much for all the good advices. I will try it all.<br>

(And I actually never clean with anything else but water. When I develope film there is a lot of foam. my guess is that the foam is from the "Agapon". )</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Yes the wetting agent (Agepon) is foaming. Therfore it's better not to do the last step in the tank. I have a glas beaker 1ltr. where several reels are fitting in. Also flush and wash the reel to get rid of the wetting agent.</p>

 

<p>Some people do use the wetting agent in the tank but I personally do as Robert does - I have a 1 liter beaker with distilled and 5 drops of PhotoFlo in it and I can dunk 2 35mm or 1 120 reel in it. I just rinse the reels under running water for maybe 10s and they've been fine. </p>