recently unearthed photos of the Nazi SS at play at Auschwitz

majority of Germans in WW2 we are powerless. Too late. Fait accompli.

Ha, same old story...look at them,they are wicked,too. We feel better now....see, lots of wicked folk.

We are not really wicked,just powerless. The bloke in the yellow striped, orange shorts, told us so.

Jeez,we sometimes waved goodbye to them... when they were on the way to their happy holiday camps.

"Strange that we all surely pretty much know that bits of our cameras are produced by slave labour in China, a nation run by a dictatorship."

Wow! You have a link to your above so I can read more?

Allen "majority of Germans in WW2 we are powerless. Too late. Fait accompli".

"Ha, same old story...look at them, they are wicked too. We feel better now....see, lots of wicked folk"

Wicked folk. There are only humans. You say I'm seeking solace from others being wicked too ? I simply attempted to say two things, a) In my view it is unwise in the extreme to make a bias on who has cornered the market on being the bad guys, or a similar bias on who has cornered the market in suffering. One needn't point a finger any further than oneself to know that in certain circumstances one is capable of all the potential of being human, from self survival cannibalism etc to self sacrifice. b) That for most people, Germans included, bringing a change of a regime, especially under a dictatorship, is near impossible. As impossible as it is for us now.

Wicked has nothing to do with it, I'd say it was human. People can justify what they are doing, at least to themselves. Most humans want a quiet safe life. It's also worth making a strong note of the fact that the strongest of us can be broken in a moment, and you really shouldn't doubt that when having thoughts of intervention as in the German people could have somehow stopped the war.

I tried to show too that when continually referring to the past, especially a particular segment of it, rather than bring across any point it simply deflects attention from the present, which as far as I'm aware the only place were we can effect change. Although as I said above for the time being at least I believe we are powerless as in ....

"Too late, fait accompli". There may have been a time shortly after WW2, at least in Britain, with soldiers returning from war expecting that democracy be effective, and there was a genuine difference between left and right and the chance of change by choosing. These days I'd say that's out of the window in the west and both left or right are in the hands of big business, or whatever label you wish to attach to it. In a sense a one party state. One of the things that may concern us these days could be something like this ...

http://www.emagazine.com/view/?3312&printview

But tell me what you can effectively do about it? By and large people do as they're told. And why would you expect the Germans to have done differently?

Orwell covers our state well in "1984" though the diet now is not boiled cabbage but junk food.

Thomas. "Wow! You have a link to your above so I can read more"?

Perhaps you're a fan of superman?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2838/is_1_36/ai_85185720/pg_1

I find it difficult to conceive, (no not really), that anyone could walk around and not notice what's going on.

Americans Fund Slave Labor

http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=57

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/027203

Thomas pretty much everyone is a slave in my view. Those that call the tune are very few and far between .... just as it ever was. I'm not expecting a change any time soon.

Thomas. The "America Funds Slave Labor" above should read ...

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/8/191237.shtml

"Strange that we all surely pretty much know that bits of our cameras are produced by slave labour in China, a nation run by a dictatorship."

"...pretty much everyone is a slave..."

Not intending to be argumentative but I was particularly wanting a link which implicates camera manufactures such as Canon and Nikon as opposed to a blanket, everybody is a slave statement per your above indictments.

"Thomas pretty much everyone is a slave in my view. Those that call the tune are very few and far between .... just as it ever was."

I've been fortunate and ducked the bullet (with the exception of the tax-slave part of the equation) via sole-proprietor of no import to the world; caller of no tunes. I provide services to the local community and have for some twenty-eight years. A few more years, my wife, I, and our savings are out of here to a less expensive environment; back intact.

My moral obligation is to leave as small of a carbon footprint behind in my wake, unlike many who tout issues of environmentalism from the seat of their air conditioned, jet hopping, lifestyle.

As to the validity of the articles you linked, I don't doubt the veracity but there's a lot of societal insight intentionally left out of these well meaning exposes...... such as what would happen to these families should everybody stop buying the goods they manufactured. In the simple, when the next super volcano blows, food will be the first to come up in short supply. The point, who's going feed these people when they stop working by refusing to work in these conditions?

Condemnation? That's the easy part as workable answers will always show up in short supply. The rub, if everybody in the world had "your" lifestyle, how would this upgrade, impact the world's environment; knowing that it would be hugely negative? The point, life isn't a zero sum game of wishful thinking as there are consequences to this unspoken wish that everybody have what you have.

Sadly, as I'm not supportive of these sorts of work environament, can one say, "cultural revolution" in China and not see the consequences?

Thomas thanks. I'm not sure I'm trying to implicate or excuse anyone, although of course I know I am implicated. Some seem to doubt that. I try to understand ... and as I tried to say in my remarks concerning the slave trade that although I know I live, as we all do, in a world which in part is full of horror, cynical brutality, unspeakable exploitation and mass deception there is not a great deal I can do about it. (As the stunning adverts say, apply the deodorant). I feel that the bulk of Germans living in the thirties and forties were in the same position. In a sense how could it have been otherwise ... for them as it is for us? It seems to me that in your above you're saying something along the same lines and that it is indeed difficult. Which was exactly my point. And perhaps as ever, as you seem to imply, all one can do is look to work on oneself.

Perhaps too I should have mentioned this when I talked above about what I saw as the grave mistake of promoting only one group of people as being fascist, that is the Germans lead by Adolf Hitler. It's become a cliche. That is we are comfortable in the knowledge that we know what fascism is ... it's a megalomaniac with a strange mustache and comic uniform who screams out his message like a madman. So when we see this sort of behavior we can instantly recognise it and say ah ... a fascist. In fact in those days in Europe the various dictators used the very very latest forms of technology, radio, film, and enormous pageants to release their propaganda on the locals, slick stuff. Fascism to-day we can suppose would be unrecognizable from that cliche, and equally slick in its presentations. So much so would we know it if we saw it?

Living in the country has its moments and I wish you well there, for me though when using my camera it requires me making the odd jaunt to the city. Ying and yang, rock and roll.

WWII and the atrocities that took place are not unique in world history and will repeat time and time again. The key here is that people can be trained to be monsters if so desired. It doesn't matter who the people were. They were just people, acting like any other would in their place. It's the ideas that were taught to them that was the problem. Today people in the west by and large understand what racism can lead to, but there are other peoples in other parts of the world who do not.

But in any case, in most wars, including WWII, economics are a crucial motivator. Germany was doing extremely badly after WWI economically and this lead the fascist movements to gain power.

What's remarkable today is that there are countries which are doing extremely well financially and yet they still start wars.

"I know I am implicated. Some seem to doubt that. I try to understand ... and as I tried to say in my remarks concerning the slave trade that although I know I live, as we all do, in a world which in part is full of horror, cynical brutality, unspeakable exploitation and mass deception there is not a great deal I can do about it. (As the stunning adverts say, apply the deodorant)."

Would you like to borrow some of mine. ;-)

Being American (to the bone) I feel that I'm the most hated person in the world as I support what we're doing (democratic processes) cause I see further than my nose; my definition of a moderate. One must ask what are the consequences should we capitulate and let others control the sandbox? Is that more desirable?

Same thing with sweatshop labor, what happens to the world's population if folks stop buying these tainted goods? In the end, sadly, I can only selfishly ask for mercy on my soul: Please forgive me.

Thomas, which soapbox is the US controlling? If the discussion is about American attempts to democratize certain countries, there are many problems with that. Democracy comes from the people when they are ready. Not from the outside. If a people has a long history of violence, they are not ready to live in a democratic system, and no amount of outside pressure will create a working democracy until the people really want it. It needs to start with education and takes at least a generation or two to grow. While democracy has the power of keeping peace in a society (which is its primary advantage over other systems of rule), if totaliarian rule is built into the people it is very hard to change. The idea takes at least decades of peacetime to mature. Having someone force a certain kind of government on another people is bound to result in resentment, especially if obvious economic motives are present. Invariably world rule results in the misuse of power. The Romans, the Church, the Spanish & Portuguese (Pizarro ...), the British (Opium wars), the Germans (the holocaust), and the US (Hiroshima, Vietnam, weapons proliferation in the Middle East) all have a history of atrocities when they were trying to rule the world. It's a flawed idea. It would be better if countries were mostly concerned with local issues, those of their own people and their neighbours (Monroe was a smart guy).

Of course there needs to be global co-operation as well, but not of the kind where one nation goes on one war after another in seek of more economic or military power no matter what noble cause it is veiled behind (religion (the Popes), civilization (Alexander), racial purity (Nazis, and numerous other parties), democratization (US), free economy (US), whatever you call it).

In order to teach democracy and freedom to other countries, paying some attention to these issues in the homeland would be a good start. The US ranked 53rd in Freedom of the Press Index in 2006, for example. It would also help if the countries where the word of democracy is distributed to, did not have massive natural resources. Notice how much was done to help prevent the Rwandan genocide vs. how much has been done, or attempted, in the Middle East. Some honesty in the message (ie. the true purpose of the war) would also add credibility.

Back to the subject of the discussion, the SS families were in their home ground; of course they tried to live natural lives. If a country goes to war on overseas territory so that the soldiers are far away from their spouses and children, of course the pictures of the events will not show normal life.

I thought long and hard as to my response to your above; many, many times. My below is not a knee jerk response as trying to respond to your above, no matter how many times I ran it through my gray matter, because of your statement's historical ignorance, caused my brain to swell because there was so much to your above that lacked any understanding of the realities and consequences of each time period.

Three things in life that I fear and stay away from, like the plague, because they're so destructive of a force towards civilization and daily harmony; ignorance (lacking the facts), hate (emotionalism) and stupidity (the inability to learn). Your above is rift with ignorance of historical context so there's no need to respond to your above as it's clear you'd (as did many others before you) rather have the likes of Tojo, Stalin or Mao be in charge of the sandbox because you didn't like the methods used to stop them, after the fact.

My prognostication (future-casting) of what your above thinking is going net the world and I've spoke this publicly to folks because I see this day coming in the near future; next ten years or so. Iran is going get the bomb; about a half dozen of them. The leadership of Iran will use this device to their childish, gangster based, selfish, self-centered end of personal self-gain; giving them a woody. Two of the atomic bombs will target Israel, one will target Paris, one London and two will target the US; Washington D.C. and New York City. Predicted means of delivery; ship based missile delivery system.

And the aftermath? World governments, like they've done so many times before (recent ex. the UN security council; Russia/China), over the last hundred years going back to Russia (Bolsheviks) and continue to do so today, are going sit around, fake being shocked, only capable of publicly wringing their hands like little children (playing to the cameras), paralyzed by their inability to act like adults as many secretly dance gleefully in their halls of power.

Ignorance, hate and stupidity?

It's only a short matter of time before my above becomes a reality and when this fateful day occurs, I'll be able to sit back smugly in the above knowledge, knowing that the world's population got what they wanted. Sadly, this is a predictable event, down to the inevitable, after-the-fact, finger pointing.

Wishing you well with your future.

Based upon the thread's heading, some might find this interesting.

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=Nazi+linen+in+India&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/133943

So much for sensitivity in regard to others as "the beat goes on."