doug_johnson10

Hmmmm...interesting contradiction.

How would you know whether you have or not? If no one seems to know what that would consist of, then how would we know?

Doesn't that imply that had they not done that, the photo would have been better? Come on Sam, really?

Isn't that just a polite way of saying "wrong"? Don't throw your shoulder out patting yourself on the back there Sam! If you are true to what you are saying, that very photo could be improved by following your instruction...something you say you would offer. Personally, all I need from an observer is "I like it!"...to me, that is the emotional response I go for. Burn this, dodge that, if only he wasn't picking his nose...well, when you stand in my shoes and are making those kind of decisions for yourself, then you can do all of those things, and THAT will be YOUR photo. Saying/suggesting you burn, dodge, crop, pull his finger out of his nose doesn't change anything...it just makes the originator of the work feel like a failure, and the person offering the critique feel superior. I don't need to do that.

Sam, before this goes any further, I want to thank you for engaging in this with me. My old brain doesn't get this kind of a workout much these days, and I appreciate you getting down in the weeds with me! Thank you!

"I said "right" isn't important to me in assessing my photos or the photos of others". Then how can you say anything critical of anything?...if the photo has flaws according to you, whether yours or someone else, then at best, there is something a little wrong.

" A question for you would be: Why is it important to you that a photographer be "right" about their own photos?" If "right" isn't appropriate for the creator of anything, then what are we left with?..."Well, I could have done better but couldn't be bothered right now"..."This isn't nearly as good as it could've been"...is that the opinion you want in your brain surgeon?

"At our level, any photographer who thinks their photography can't be improved is most likely a dolt." Who are you trying to please? Again I ask "If I take a photo that I think is perfect, how can I be wrong?" If the only person I have to please is me, and I am the only one who REALLY knows why I think it's perfect...what MY criteria is...what MY intentions were, then HOW can I be wrong? "You can be wrong if you think your photo is perfect and it isn't." Are you saying NO photo is perfect?...are you saying ANY photos are perfect? "If I were seeking critique, I'd likely value the opinion of someone I thought had good visual skills and some visual experience and who explained their criticisms well. " If their "visual skills" are different from yours, how could they be expected to evaluate your photograph with any degree of credibility? If you are taking the stance that there are universally accepted opinions regarding the "correctness" of any part of an art form, then I would refer you to the quote at the top of this little diatribe.

If the photographer who takes the photo can be the ONLY one who knows whether they got it right or not, doesn't that relegate "critique" to "opinion" status? If I take a photo that I think is perfect, how can I be wrong?

Sam, I guess I was going a little deeper than lining up clouds and sun. A lifetime of experience comes into play when a photographer trips that shutter. There is no way of knowing why that particular formation of visual elements resonates with any one particular photographer! I've always found that when I get in the "zone", the less I'm thinking, the more I'm purely reacting, the better my photos. The "zone" is not a conscious place.

Headshot? Armshot!

"Give a photographer a digital camera, and a big SD card, and a real work of art will be produced"...I think your evaluation is small minded. Who among us have ever tried to evaluate the split second we trip that shutter? I've been doing this for 50 years now, and I have no idea why I trip that shutter now, versus a millisecond later/sooner. I've also seen enough shrinks to know I will never know. The "NOW" moment is unknown, involuntary, and MAGIC! Do you think Ansel Adams knew why he tripped the shutter at 2:17 pm instead of 2:16 pm? Maybe he took both, but only one said "YES" to him in the dark room. I don't think you mean to be as casual in your statement...I hope. Like I said, I have been doing this for 50 years...mostly in what I consider the most competitive genre, advertising/fashion. I did well...not because I have any special talent, but because I worked my ass off, and was lucky. Never underestimate luck...being in the right place at the right time is 90% of great photography!

Hi Bill, did you get my reply email about using the photo?

"Critique" is asking for opinion on things that can change, not things that cant be changed. People who ask for change where none is possible, are trolling...that includes moderators it appears. Yes,IF I had shot RAW, IF the info was there, IF, IF, IF. Like I said before, I can flap my arms as much as I can, but even moderators can't fly.

OK...uncle. It's like a Rorschach test...you see what you want to see. If you see him on a black background so that you can see all of his hair, Photoshop it. THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!...not.

Certainly relevant in another discussion...I've made it clear that it was shot as a jpg. Let me ask again, if miraculously I could accommodate the critics request for change, would the message of the image change?

You should move there...you would be right at home!

Thanks Bill...good advice!

Thanks Bob...this was taken well after sunset in a dark, Delhi back alley, against an unlit doorway. I assume he is Indian, but the Indian man sitting next to him (who told me this gentleman was blind) was even darker!

Thanks again thoite, I just might do that! Seems I've poked the hornets nest!

So all I need to do is get that guy to a war zone and all is forgiven?

I think that describes one of us...perhaps the one most defensive.

Sam, methinks you are being defensive!