catchlight

Ask the seller to use Cancount to verify the number of shutter actuations on an 1 Series DSLR:

http://www.enjoyyourcamera.com/Canon-Accessories/CanCount-Version-133-for-Canon-EOS-1D-s-Series::525.html

(S)he can email you a copy of the Cancount results.

The 50D looks like it will be a great camera, but nothing matches a 1 Series body for sports because of the high frame rate, quick AF, and programability through personal functions. I suggest you get a 1DMkIIN if you go that route, because of the bigger LCD.

Owning your 40D and the 1D will increase the number of focal lengths available in your lens collection by giving you a 1.3X and a 1.6X crop.

There used to be a guide to setting up a 1D for sports shooting on the Sports Illustrated site. There is also a Canon .pdf on the web showing how to optimize a 1D for different types of shooting.

FYI, here is Tim's description of the PP he did on the theatre photos:

"Post processing was all done in Lightroom 2 with fairly minimal adjustments, mainly a slight colour temperature correction and some exposure adjustment to bring out the shadow and highlight detail. Other than that I did a bit of sharpening 55% and increased clarity to about 35%. I also reduced the Blacks level to 1 or 0 because of the high contrast."

Thanks for your comparison of the MkII and MkIII. I have not shot with a MkIII yet, and know that evaluations of its performance when it first came out were dominated by concerns about AF, which obscured its positive attributes.

You're right that intense competition between Canon and Nikon benefits everyone. When I think of the performance of my first DSLR, the Canon D30, it's hard to believe the amount of progress that has been made in just seven or eight years.

Gary (OP), I don't want to highjack your thread, and hope this info addresses your original question and is of use to you.

Neil, now that I check more ISO settings in the EXIF, I can see that you are right. Some of the higher ISO shots (2200, etc.) are impressively noise-free, though, when viewed on my friend's Mac Cinema Display or printed.

Perhaps you will agree that Nikon's Auto-ISO feature is highly desirable, because it allowed Tim to always shoot at the lowest ISO necessary to achieve a shutter speed of 1/125 sec. I've covered events in the same theatre with my 1DMKII, and had to either shoot at its highest acceptably noise-free setting, 1600 ISO, no matter how the lighting changed, or constantly change settings in the dark and miss shots while doing so, especially during dance performances.

Possibly the 1DMkIII made advances over the MkII in low light, because I can't match the low noise levels the D3 can produce. I'm confident Canon will produce an answer to the D3, but when?

Here's a link to a gallery of theatre photos my friend took with his D3 under "coal mine at midnight" lighting conditions. He used Nikon's excellent Auto-ISO feature, and the ISO ranged as high as 6400, with many at 1600 and 3200.

Note the detail in the light areas of the costumes and on the faces, with little or no blown-out highlights. He has printed some of them as big as 11 x 17, and the IQ, especially the absence of noise, is astounding.

Canon's current DSLRs cannot match this performance, but many of us hope they will do so with the replacement for the 1DMkIII. Otherwise, there will be a lot of used L lenses for sale.

The password is "CLT" (all capitals).

http://public.fotki.com/TerryPenney/courtenay_little_theatre/night-of-shooting-stars/noss-dress-rehearsal/

Nikon's D3 has the edge on Canon right now for noise-free, low-light action shooting, as evidenced by more and more black 400/2.8's attached to D3's showing up on the sidelines at MLB and NFB games and the Olympics.

Three friends shoot with D3's in venues where I cover sports, concerts, theatre, and dance, and my 1KMkII and 5D can't come close to matching their noiseless images shot at ISO 1600, 3200, and beyond.

Canon's 1DMkIV had better match or surpass the D3 in this regard, or sports and wildlife shooters will stampede away from Canon like shareholders and depositors bailing out of their failing banks this week.

And, Canon, please include an industrial-strength auto-ISO feature, so shooters can program the camera to choose the lowest ISO that can achieve a preset shutter speed or aperture, eliminating the need to switch settings in the dark during the action or shoot at a noisier-than-necessary ISO. The "safety shift" or whatever it's called on the 50D doesn't cut it.

My experience is consistent with what William and Wilson have said.

<p>

<li>The Canon 1.4X performs noticably better than the 2X, especially on zooms;

<li>Avoid third-party TCs;

<li>Avoid using a TC at all unless there is no other way to get the shot, or you don't plan to enlarge or sell the images;

<li>Your 100-400 is an excellent choice for rugby, soccer, and field hockey.<p>

I find that positioning myself well on the field, anticipating the flow of play, and timing the peak action improves my shots more than a longer lens ever would. <p>The more I concentrate on those things, the "luckier" I get in having great shots come into my viewfinder.<p>

You probably know all this but, just in case, using the highest frame rate, AI Servo, centre focus point only, with the AF moved to the * button via Custom Function 4 makes the camera respond more quickly.

That online tutorial is good and, although it is 10 years old and doesn't cover digital issues, Jon Sievert's book, Concert Photography, is well worth studying:

http://www.humblepress.com/Concert/index.html

If you have influence with the band and its manager, ask if they will bump up the light level on the stage, at least for a few numbers. If the lighting includes red gels, get them to lose those if they want decent photos.

Try to get some emotion and peak action into your shots, like the lead and harmony singers sharing a mic, or two guitar players "duelling" face to face.

Try to keep all the mic stands and other crap that often litter the stage out of your shot, and position yourself to get a clean background.

Try for tight shots of the lead singer without the mic obscuring his/her face. Use the centre focus point only, locked onto the near eyeball. Use Custom Function 4 to move focus off the shutter release and onto the * button on the back. Takes some practice to focus with your thumb, but it's crucial.

No flash, and you might want a fast longer lens like a 85/2 or a 135/2 to freeze the action and blur the background.

As great as the 1DMkIIN is, I suggest you check out the new 50D (or whatever Canon calls it in Europe) for the purposes you describe.

From what I've read, its new sensor might have the edge in noise-free low-light performance. It also has an auto-ISO feature which chooses the lowest ISO for freezing action, instead of requring the photographer to change settings in the dark during the action, or shoot at a higher ISO than necessary at times when the light changes.

FYI, here is a gallery of dance photos done with the 1DMkII, mainly at 1600 ISO, so you can decide if that camera meets your standards. Three friends have the Nikon D3, which is a much better tool for this kind of shooting, but I'm hoping Canon's sensor technology and features, like auto-ISO, will soon catch up to Nikon.

http://www.brentreid.exposuremanager.com/g/recitals_2008

Edward, I suggest you work away from the pro and <b>take the shots he or she doesn't get</b>. You have the advantage of knowing the families and friends, or your sister's at least, and being aware of the special relationships and back-stories at play.

<p>

Let the pro cover the processions, vows, and formals, while you:

<li>get reaction shots of parents and your sisters' friends;

<li>pose the youngest kids with a special grandparent or great-grandparent;

<li>get shots of those who have travelled the farthest to share in the day;

<li>take shots of your sister's best friends with their partner and children;

<li>get tight shots of people's reactions to the toasts, cake-cutting, and first dance

<li>get candid pix of nice moments between the B&G all through the day.

<p>

If you take the advice of one of the best wedding shooters I know and <i>"look for the love"</i>, you will produce shots that accurately capture the emotions and relationships of the day, and of your sister's world.

<p>

You've got all the gear you need, except for a Really Right Stuff wedding flash bracket, and a Canon off-shoe cord. Your 30D and 70-200 will be excellent for capturing tight reaction shots, and the 17-35mm will be great for the reception.

<p>

www.reallyrightstuff.com

<p>

Have fun!

Miles, for sports, a 1DMkII or MkIIN is significantly better than either of the cameras you are considering. Two years ago, those were the bodies attached to all the long white lenses along the sidelines at NFL, MLB, and NCAA games, and the winter Olympics.

Rugged construction, weather/dust sealed body, 8.5 fps, lightning-quick AF, 200,000+ actuation shutter, and limitless customizabilty make 1 Series bodies the right tool for action shooting.

There are some very nice, low-actuation 1DMkII's available now at an attractive price, and they are virtually as good at the newer 1DMkIII.

If that doesn't appeal to you, the 40D is a much better choice than the 5D for sports.

I use one whenever I use flash.

If you are concerned about weight and bulk, take a look at the RRS wedding pro bracket .

It's the lightest, most versatile, and stowable bracket I've seen.

http://reallyrightstuff.com/flash/04.html

Canon's 24-70/2.8 is a pretty useful lens at weddings. With the 70-200/2.8 on the second body, and the 17-40/4

close at hand, you would be ready for anything.

The Tamron might be too long at the short end on the 1.3X and 1.6X crop bodies.

A second strobe, even a mint/used 550EX, would be an important backup to add.

Hope this info helps.

Don't apologize for asking that question, Adam. It's a crucial one that is often overlooked. You've had some good answers to it.

I'd just like to add that the subjects you mainly shoot should play a big part in your choice of DSLR. For example, sports and action require lightning-fast autofocus and a high frame rate, like a 40D or a 1D Mk II or III. For landscapes, portraits, and other static subjects at 5D or 1Ds will give you great results.

If you don't need Times Square billboard sized enlargements, a 5D without grip and 24-105/4 IS deliver a terrific image quality to weight ratio when travelling.

That combo fits nicely into a ThinkTank Urban Disguise shoulder bag (looks like one of those men's carryalls), so people around you on the street, etc., only know you are packing high end photo gear if you want them to.

Alan, flash is almost never permitted in a concert setting, nor would it be desirable.

As well as distracting the performers and nearby audience members, it destroys the ambience of the concert lighting (such as it is sometimes), and often creates ugly shadows.

In short, flash is annoying, and doesn't allow you to capture what the audience saw.

What subjects will you mainly be shooting? A 5D is excellent for static subjects like landscapes portraits, architecture, and macro, but a 40D is much better for capturing action such as sports and children in motion, mainly because of its higher frame rate (6fps compared to 3fps).

The 5D's bigger sensor requires high quality lenses because it can "see" right out to the corners, the weakest area of every lens, so "L" glass is pretty well essential. With its 1.6X crop factor, the 40D is more forgiving.

The 40D comes with a somewhat useful built-in flash, The 5D requires a $300-plus external flash. Either camera will give you the "good colour" you asked about.

Basic combinations:

(1) 5D with the 24-105/4 IS lens;

(2) 40D with the 17-40/4L lens, and a 70-200/x lens for portraits, sports, and other action. The difference in the cost of the bodies will nearly pay for the longer zoom with the 40D.

Just multiply the focal length printed on the side of the lens by the "crop factor" of the camera:

<p>

<li> 1DMkIII = 1.3

<li> 1DsMkIII = 1.0

<li> 40D = 1.6

<li> 5D = 1.0<p>

That will give you the apparent focal length range of the body/lens combination.

I shoot with three D3 owners in low-light theatrical and dance environments, and they are getting results at 3200 ISO and above that are as free of noise as my Canon 5D and 1DMkII can deliver at 800 ISO.

Add to that Nikon's auto ISO feature, where you can specify a shutter speed or an aperture and the camera will deliver it at the lowest possible ISO, further reducing the likelihood of noise.

The two CF card feature is another advantage. Perhaps Canon could also make the Print button programmable, since almost nobody prints direct from the camera. Mirror lockup comes to mind, or switching between sets of Personal Functions.

Canon has some catching up to do, especially for available light photographers of all kinds, including indoor sports shooters, performing arts photogs, and those who photograph wildlife near dawn and dusk.

I hope the rumour that started this thread is true, and I hope Canon gets the new body right first time.

I shoot theatre, concerts, dance, and sports with available light in environments that are often very dark. A fast lens, f2 or better, means I can use a less noisy ISO, or can get shutter speed fast enough to freeze dancers or athletes.

Also, fast lenses used wide open give that buttery soft bokeh that makes the photo's main subject "pop" in an eye-catching way.

As noted above, most fast lenses are razor sharp wide open, so you can actually use and benefit from the lens speed you paid for.

Having just researched, tested, and purchased gear for the same purposes that you are considering, here are some suggestions:<p>

<li>Body: Canon 40D or 1DMkIIN or 1DMkIII

<li>Lens: EF400mm/f4 IS DO

<li>Teleconverter: Canon 1.4X

<li>Macro accessories: Canon 500D diopter; Kenco extension tubes.

<li>Camera support: Carbon fiber tripod or monopod; Really Right Stuff ballhead, monopod head, clamp, and lens plate<p>

The 400/4 is a relatively lightweight but optically superb lens, suitable for use handheld for larger birds or birds in flight, or on a tripod with the 1.4X tele-extender for more elusive birds. The f4 aperture gives you a bright viewfinder and adequate shutter speeds in low light..<p>

The 400/4's image stabilization has a regular anti-camera shake setting, plus a setting to help steady panning shots of birds in flight. Since weight is a problem for you, IS will often give you very sharp shots handheld..<p>

The 40D is a 1.6X crop camera, making the 400/4 lens 640mm/f4 which gives you lots of reach and speed. The 40D body is not sealed, but with care it will perform without issues in humid conditions. <p>

The 1D series bodies are sealed and are very rugged, but weigh considerably more than the 40D as a result. They have a 1.3X crop, making the 400 into a 520mm/f4 lens. All three bodies have a high burst rate (6 to 8.5 fps) for birds in action on the ground or in flight.

<p>

One or more of the extension tubes will give you close to true macro (1:1) on the 400/4 without requiring you to carry a second lens. Add a 500D screw-on dioptor to get even closer for macro subjects.<p>

Before buying anything, try out the body and lens in a camera store or in the field to be sure the weight is managable for you. <p>

Canon and Nikon dominate the professional and serious amateur market for several good reasons, including reliability, image quality, versatility, and resale value. Bird photography is one of the most challenging photographic pursuits, where the quality of your equipment can make the difference between capturing shots you are pleased with, or missing golden opportunities. Don't skimp on your gear, or allow yourself to be fooled by off-brands with gimmicky feature lists.

<p>

Happy testing, shopping and shooting with whatever system you choose!

<i>"I was looking for a camera which performs better in darker venues and enviroments."<p>

"Yes I know lenses play there part but I'm just interested in the body at present."</i><p>

The crucial thing is to identify the lens(es) you need for the exact situations in which you plan to shoot most often, then decide about the body.<p>

For example, if you are wanting to photograph indoor sports, theatrical and dance performances, musicians in clubs, etc., you will need lenses with a maximum aperture of f2 or faster to achieve a fast enough shutter speed to freeze action at a low enough ISO setting to ensure an acceptable level of noise.. <p>That means primes, because even f2.8 zooms don't cut it in dark environments, at least not on Canon bodies.<p>

The best DSLR by far for low light, high-ISO shooting right now is the Nikon D3. I won't switch to Nikon, but I'm going to wait for the next generation of Canon sensors and bodies before upgrading my 5D or 1DMkII.<p>

Bottom line, get one fast Canon prime to start with, put it on whatever body you choose, and see how it performs. Either the 40D or the 5D would be a good starting point, although at 3 fps the 5D is too slow for serious sports work.<p>

See if you can borrow or rent a body/lens combination or two and try them out before purchasing anything.

I got a 100-400 for a trip to Galapagos, and couldn't have been happier with its versatitlity, portability, and image quality:

http://www.f8andbethere.ca/galapagos/

Hopping in and out of Zodiacs was easy with this lens, and the IS was useful because tripods are not allowed on most cruises there.

It's excellent for outdoor sports, auto racing, air shows, etc. too. It's kind of the entry level long lens, without the weight and mega-expense. AF speed is good, and results with the Canon 1.4X are acceptable.

The irony about Promaster is that no pro would be caught dead using one.

Putting anything but a Canon lens on an EOS 1Ds is like buying a Porsche Carrera and fitting it with recapped tires. There are a few Canon non-L lenses that are very good, but mainly in the short tele range (85/1.8, 100/2, 100/2.8 macro).

The posters above are right about the EF17-40mmL being a good value, that will give excellent IQ and reliability, and hold its value over time.