milan_moudgill

Hi Jon,

I had a 80-200, 2.8 on. I suspect that I shot the Mt Gurla image at nearly 200.

The amazing thing about Tibet is that the atmosphere is so rarified, that there

is sharpness and clarity that carries to the horizon.

Quite incredible.

Also, this is a vast vast vast flat-land. There is, at times, little in terms of an

obstacle that cuts off your view of the horizon. Deep landscapes are the norm.

As such the Himalayas to the south and the Trans-Himalayan ranges (that run

parallel to Himalayas) to the north are are the only natural barriers. Since

there is nothing to the east and west, mornings and sun downs are

spectacular. The whole place can get bathed in a golden glow till the sun

dissapears below the horizon. Attached is an image of pilgrims approaching

the Thugolo Moanstery (for a night halt) on the second day of their 4-day

circumambulation of the lake.

All this backgound for a reason...

Altitude gain is not impossible (as in the case of the Mt Gurla picture),

however, in most cases, one will be on the ground (low point of view), looking

across a deep landscape. In such cases, sometimes, i prefer shooting with a

long lens to cut out the foreground. The foreground can be very unattractive,

and mostly is. Not your typical swaying grass, or carpet of flowers in Tibet.

In fact, in the picture I would have liked to cut out some more of the

foreground.<div></div>

I am off again this February. The lake Manasarovar freezes over in winter. It

will be a sight to behold... the lake is almost a sea. Picture attached. (Kailash

looms in the distance).

Thanks for the interest you guys have shown. It is very encouraging. I have

been working on this for three years now and positive feedback suddenly

makes it all worth it!

I am a practicing graphic designer - photography is only a hobby. It is where I

burn the money I make!!! Which, I suspect is the case with many of us?

Cheers!

What makes the project insane is that the Indian currency is weaker than the

US dollar by a factor of 46. Which means, for me, a 5000$ camera set is 46

times more expensive. Ouch!

Lets make great images!

I am quite speechless from your responses!

Lee thank you for considering loaning your equipment. You are truly a kind

person.

I should have posted the landscape image earlier so that the context of my

questions was clear. Attached is another... Pilgrims have just crossed Dorma

La, a 18,600ft pass on the second day of the three day circumambulation

around Mt. Kailash. In the background is Lake Gauri Kund

Without getting into specific issues, let me give an overarching response.

The Mamiya 6x7 is a great idea. However, having just invested in a Contax

set, I cannot justify another MF purchase.

I am quite convinced that there will be a significant difference in quality

(betwen MF and LF) when enlargements touch the 8ftx10ft size.

Which clearly suggests LF is the winner.

I am VERY VERY aware that getting good images out of LF is not a light task.

It may take a long time before I get good at it.

I know it is unadvisable (silly) to get into a project with an unfamiliar tool.

In this context let me say: I will carry the Contax and 'cover' all the LF images

that I shoot on the 120. A safety net if you will. No loss if I screw up the LF. But

if I get the image... wow!

Also, I hope to make multiple trips (3-4) over 2006. I know the area like the

back of my hand. I can always attempt the LF pictures again. (Obviously I will

never be able to replicate the light conditions etc.)

And I plan on spending at least 2 months in preparation with the LF camera.

Not much by any yardstick... but at least it I will not go in blind.

Having said this... I need to decide between a 4x5 (or 5x7) and a (8x10).

Leaving the expense aside for a second... it seems that a 8x10 will give me

better 8ftx10ft enlargements.

Weight and set up time are one of the several things to consider. Set up time

does not bother me as much since I have time on my side. And, I certainly do

not plan on carrying the LF. I will in all probability pack it in a hard case and

strap it onto a pack horse.

So I propose to study the 8x10 forums, follow the links in this thread, and

educate myself. Do not wish to hurry into a decision. I will also take up the

suggestion of calling Jim at Midwest Photo.

All suggestions towards lightweight 8x10 field cameras (keeping the expense

out for the moment), that I could study, will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again to each and everyone of who has taken the trouble of

responding with in-depth answers

Milan

Guy! Thank you very much for your the time you have taken in providing

detailed feedback and inputs throughout. I am indebted.

A bit of a boo-boo. Only one of the images i wished to upload seems to be

linked (must be a size restriction issue). It gives no idea of the terrain! The

image shows Nepali's crossing a feed to the Kali. The Indian pilgrim trail

follows the Kali river (the natural boundary between India and Nepal - on its

west edge), across the Himalayas, into Tibet, to Kailash-Manasarovar and

back, making a 28-day circuit.

Here is a picture of Mt Gurla Mandhatta from the Kailash foothills, looking

across the Barkha plains. This is the kind of vista that may benefit from LF??

I will digest your comments and get back

Sincere thanks

Milan

These pages seem to have compressed in them a well of knowledge. My

sincere thanks to you. I have been silently watching, and have gained

immensly from your views.

To put things in perspective, which will allow you to fine-tune your

comments, let me give you some background.

I live in India, and import of products is my ONLY source of camera gear.

There is a miniscule MF and non-existatant LF market here. I must depend

on sites like this for knowledge/guidance.

As such I CANNOT hire and tryout equipment prior to purchase. It is a

setback that I must accept. Had I half a chance, I may never have been on

this page!

So, I must make a choice by 'remote control', a proxy decision in which you

all will play an invaluable role. I may muck up a bit, but I suspect not by a

lot. It is an expensive route to follow, but I have no alternative.

Next, the project:

I travel and photograph in a remote corner of West Tibet for a book/

exhibition project of mine called "Kailash-Manasarovar, A Journey to the

Centre of the Universe".

This area is considered by many South Asian cultures to be the centre of

the universe. The physical manifestation of the myth of Mt Meru, if you

know of it.

Kailash is supposed to be the mountain of the myth, around whose axis the

universe rotates. Manasarovar is the massive lake of the myth from which

the four great rivers are supposed to originate. In reality, the Brahmaputra,

Indus, Karnali and Sutlej do not originate from the lake, but from very close.

Close enough to give believers yet another similarity between the

geography of the area and the myth.

A visit to the area (including a 3-day circumambulation of the mountain) is

one of the biggest pilgrimages a Hindu, Buddhist, Jain or Bon-Po can make

and, as such, it attracts scores of pilgrims every year.

The sources of the rivers were first visited in 1906 by the Sweedish explorer

Sven Hedin. Since then, there seem to be accounts of the visit of only one

other ﾖ Swami Pranavanada. I will visit the sources of the rivers in the

course of the project.

I have tried to keep this introduction short!! To give you a taste of the

terrain I will attach a few images.

Will I have the endurance and patience to lug a LF around??... yes. There

is no doubt here.

I would appreciate your views on a camera system in the light of the above.

What do you think. Are we talking 8x10 here? What camera do you

suggest? And lenses? Which 8x10 brands are light and portable?

Secondly, do you know of manufacturers who may be open to sponsoring a

system? I would need a system for the length of the project (another year

plus) after which I will be more than happy returning it? One is into creating

great images... not into amassing camera systems. Any guidance here will

be awesome.

Looking forward to your inputs.

Gratefully,

Milan

A lot of fire here! thanks for your response guys... very insightful and

educative.

As Ellis Vener points out, Mamiya makes the Toyo brand of LF cameras, and

there is zero bias in their employees answer.

I must add... I plan to shoot TP, scan, and get digital prints for the said

exhibition.

It seems that differences will be evident only in 'large' sizes.

Also, the viewing distance will play a critical role in judging the difference. (let

us say, the viewing distance is = print diagonal).

I accept that camera movements can greatly enhance the aesthetic quality of

landscapes taken on a 4x5, but in real terms, all else remaining the same, is

there a perceptible difference?

Thanks

Milan

This follows on some issues that came up on an earlier post of mine "Help on

Lens Choice" where the issue of sharpness in 8ftx10ft enlargements was

being discussed.

I wish to exhibit enlargements. I am planning on acquiring a 4x5 for a project

so that, theoretically, the enlargements will be better than from my Contax

645. But then that is what I think.

But is this true?

If I photograph the same scene on the Conatx 645 (vacuum back, and the

super 120 Makro) and on a 4x5 (Planning on the Toyo CF) with a good lens,

and make enlargements the same size, how will the results compare?

Since I plan on doing landscapes primarily, will the 4x5 make an impact

(compared to the 645)? Thus the 'movement' advantage is minimal?

What got me worried is this answer from a gent at Mamiya on the Mac User

Forum. The question is: "Will I see a noticeable improvement in image quality

with a 5x4 over 66 or 67 format"

Response from: Paul D'Ambrosio - 11:13am Jul 16, 2001 EST (1.)

Mamiya America Corporation

"Quentin, You should not really notice a difference between an image shot

with a 6x7cm camera as opposed to an image shot with a 4x5" camera. We

have seen images taken with a 6.4x5 cameras that have been enlarged to

5'x4' and they look extremely sharp. The main benefits are the movements.

(swings, tilts ect) that you get with a 4x5 view camera. Every photographer

has his/her idea of what camera would be best for him or her. Fortunately we

have many models for you to choose from. I suggest that you visit our site at

www.toyoview.com. There you will find all the specs and information that you

need to help you make the right choice for yourself."

This forum is amazing! Thanks for the 'hand-holding' guys.

Clear on the viewing distance issue. Great.

Trying to respond and clarify things that have come up in your answers:

1. Have been photographing for the last 8 years and could call myself as an

advanced amateur.

2. I live in India and have to depend ENTIRELY on purchases overseas for

equipment! (Cannot visit shops/hire equipment and test etc.)

3. This project I am working on is in a remote corner in west Tibet. Travel is a

huge expense. Yes, I am diving in deep... I would rather buy, and carry, an

extra lens, and not use it (ever?) than spend all the time and money to get

there and be under equipped. Also, it is EXTREMLY tough to get equipment

from the US, and I try and do it together as far as possible.

The pitfall here is that I may get into equipment that is extravagant and over-

the-top or excessive... and your concerns are very noble. That is why I have

been studying and reading excessively in an attempt to educate myself.

You guys are my teachers... The forum rocks!! Thanks guys. And I will keep

asking questions.

I am purchasing the toyo 45CF and need help in selecting lenses.

I wish to try and exhibit prints in approx 8x10ft size, so lens sharpness will

need to be considered. (I will not be able to lug a 8x10 camera, and must rely

on a 4x5 to achieve this).

I will primarily be shooting landscapes, and will backpack with the kit.

My budget is about $3,500. Of which the camera takes $659. A Horseman

6x12 back will take another $650.

A friend who knows his LF advised "save on the camera, spend on lenses".

He suggested the Rodenstock series. Since I wish to acquire a 65, 90, 150

and a 240/300, this will have stretched beyond my budget.

Which brings me to my question...

Am I being too ambitious with the Rodenstocks? Or are they not good enough

and you guys recommend something totally diff? Are the nikors any good.

They are a BIT cheaper.

Thanks in advance for the advice

Milan

Hi! I am entering the world of LF through the 45CF. On studying the specs, it

seems that the back movements are quite limited... restricted to tilt only, while

the front seems to be able to rise and fall, shift and swing.

Do the CF users find this quite limiting? Would love to hear.

To clarify, I plan on using this primarily for landscapes.

Thanks,

Milan

Do shout at me if this is the simplest question ever to grace this forum...

I am buying a Toyo 45CF and lenses (65, 90, 150, 300)

I plan to take this kit on a trip to Tibet, where dust will be an issue.

How does it work, do i get each lens with its correct lensboard and keep them

attached permanently? Just replace the lens+lensboard every time I need to

change the lens?

Theoretically, if all the lenses took the same shutter size, and thus had a

similar size hole, I assume it will be a pain ITA to keep changing the lens? Not

to mention this allows for dust to get in.

A kind word to a newbiw will be greatly appreciated

THanks in advance

Milan

Thats that then!

Thanks a lot guys

the 90mm is the smallest lens this Toyo takes.

How can I get a wide 65 on it. BTW this is a newbie here. i have read a bit

about recessed boards but have only a faint idea abou them.

How do i go about this? Appreciate any guidance

thanks

Milan

Hi

Wished to shoot off 6x12 off a Toyo 45

Badger graphic lists two:

1. Horseman 6x12 Panoramic 120 for $695

2. Linhof Techno Rollex 6x12 Panoramic for 120 $1,995

these are at:

http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=177

Does anyone know which will work?

And why is the Linhof thrice the cost?

Can anyone with 6x12 experience help out. Would like to hear if the tips and

tricks. Where are the pitfalls?

Thanks in advance

Milan

Does anyone use a Pelican case?

If one needed to fit a 645 (with MP-1), an 80mm, a 45mm, a 120 and a 210,

with a bit of space for an extra back, what Pelican case model would be

suitable.

Would really appreciate any guidance

Thanks in advance

Milan

Can anyone recommend a good rain shield that I can drape over a tripod

mounted 645. Something that will let me shoot even if a 210mm is mounted.

Thanks in advance

Milan

Can anyone recommend a good rain shield that I can drape over a tripod

mounted 645. Something that will let me shoot even if a 210mm is mounted.

Thanks in advance

Milan

Thanks for all your help.

I have been scouring the net... none of the stores seem to have these

accessories... except the Hong Kong stores.

Also visit the Hong Kong Supplies site:

hksupplies.com

Good prices.

I was wondering, besides B&H which stores could I look at in the US for things

like the LA-50 Cable Switch, Power Pack P-8, MP-1 Battery Holder (that B&H

does not have)

Two criteria:

1. Web presence is a must.

2. secure, trusted, reliable, stores to transact e-payments with is a major

consideration

Do you guys have any good recommendations?

Also, I would be grateful if anyone can help me with a rain shield for the 645

that I could shoot with, even when a 210 is mounted?

Could anyone suggest a Pelican case size for a 645 (with the MP-1) kit that

would include a 45, 80, 210 and maybe a 120 with an extra back and a bit of

space.

Thanks in advance

Milan

Thanks for responses guys! Will check out the Lee system .

Question:

If I pick up a 0.3 and a 0.6 do I need a 0.9? The way I look at it, if the filter

holder has three slots, I can use the .3 and .6 together and get the three stop

advantage of the .9. The second plus is that I need not match the the transition

between the .3 and .6 filter. By varying the overlap of the transition I may be

able to get another level of control in the transition.

All this, of course, is purely theoretical.

Just to clarify things ? I cannot use the Zeiss lens hoods when I have a slot

fiter attached, and I will need to use, if necessary, some manner of bellow

hood?

Thanks in advance

Milan

To try and focus (bad pun) on the larger issue:

Do the ASA values on digital camera and a light meter match? Is the co-

relation exact? Is the film ASA sensitivity exactly the same as D ASA

sensitivity?

Could you guys out there who are wiser on these issues please clarify

Thanks

Hi Edward,

The overexposure was blatant. Very washed out... I did check on a monitor,

but the LCD (unreliable I agree) itself was white.

As I mentioned, the correct exposure was a stop-and-a-half off the meter

values.

So basically what you guys are saying is that the film and D ASA readings

should match. A correctly read ambient off the meter shouls expose correctly?

If so I will redo and check again.

Thanks

Thanks Stephen.

I use the meter extensively with my F-100 and 8008-s. And bang on every

time. I am not using it incorrectly for sure.

Also the lens in question is a brand new 60 macro. the first few rolls off the F-

100 fired off correctly with the meter. The lens aperture is working properly.

Which brings me to your other two points... how do I test for the sunny f/16

rule? And what do you mean "does the camera meter agree with the light

meter"? How do i check this?

THanks

I am using a 45, 80, 120 and a 210 on a project that will involve a lot of early

morning and evening landscape pictures... the kinds where a grad ND is of

great help in opening up the dark foreground.

I believe there are Graduated NDs that attach to the lens front (not screw ons)

that are 4x5s, that can be moved vertically in a 4x4 holder, thereby giving a

little flexibility to the 'transition line' (in the case of hard line graduates), or to

the 'transition area' (in the case softer graduation).

A great advantage as I see it... only I have zero experience here and am

looking for advice on good graduated NDs, specially of the type described

above.

What are the good GNDs makes available?

What do you guys recommend... Glass, resin, plastic etc.??

What do I need to make a sensible set of GNDs for my lenses ? given that I

may use the 45, the 120 and the 210 for a landscape

Can I use my lens hoods with these filters (lets say it is advisable). Is there a

third party (eg. bellows hood) that will do the trick??

Thanks in advance

Milan