cathy_and_david_bock

<p>Bob--- We met with the couple at 9am, and worked until midnight, non-stop. Remember this is also two people shooting here, but since I said I would show proof, here it is. Take it or leave it. Attached is an image of their folder, as well as the Lightroom Dialog folder. Honestly, it's not that difficult to do. Our clients pay us a lot of money, and we give them every single inch of our energy because we would want our photographers for our wedding to do the same, and they did. ---David.</p>

<p>Agreed Aimee and I would consider encouraging NOT WORKING with album companies that don't know the difference. We simply won't work with them at all. It's common knowledge in the design world, and if they are making a product they should know better. If they don't have a clue on the page/side/spread terms what else don't they have a clue on? Maybe it's just a pet peve of mine from being a designer in my past life but it's not that hard of concept to grasp. >.<</p>

<p>If you're shooting at F8 don't waste money on fast L glass, it's silly. The point of having that fast glass is to shoot wide open. :) </p>

<p>I'd get yourself a G10 to start with, if you really think you'll need more lenses, then consider getting a rebel DSLR and a 50 1.8. The g10 is a fantastic camera for amateur photography and should do an awesome job for you. :) If you don't plan on buying lots of lenses there is not point in buying an SLR.</p>

<p>This is the reason we deliver 800+ images to our clients, course we take a bazillion but still, this is why we take 3-5 shutter instances of every single photo we take. We keep it on rapid fire the entire time and just do a blast every time we have a shot for just this sort of problem. When we do formals we usually take 8 photos per shot just in case or if we need to photoshop eyes. You won't have to look at the back if you do this. I suggest putting somewhere on your website around how many you give the client.</p>

<p>Hmmm. I would have a Nikor 50 1.4, just because their isn't a 35 1.4L equivalent (our primary lens). 2.8's are just not wide enough aperture for us to be primary lenses.</p>

<p>However, between those two, the 70-200 2.8 IS easy. That lens on the canon is super-sexy and we love ours and I'm sure the Nikon equiv is just as awesome.</p>

<p>We shoot a LOT of pictures.. on average we take about 5000-6000 pictures but we have had a couple 8000+ weddings. As an earlier person said though, if you know what you're doing editing that many images isn't much of an issue. The wedding we shot on Saturday had 5,508 images (and I swear to God if someone tries to chime in with a logistics of how that's possible I'll take a freaking screen shot of the file. Sigh. Sorry, just get tired of people arguing if that's possible to do or not). That wedding is done, fully edited and everything down to 1000ish fully retouched images available in both color and b&w. I started working on it on Tuesday afternoon. If you are an expert in Lightroom and Photoshop this is VERY easy, and I'm not even rushing, every single photo is given to the client at the same quality you see on our blog (their wedding is up there right now with a slideshow of 130+ images).</p>

<p>Something to keep in mind too. Usually us heavy 'uzi' 'spray and pray' 'shotgun' shooters are very precise. The reason we take so many pictures is not holding down the entire wedding and then just picking out the good ones. (Also, it's two of us so that adds to the numbers). We keep about 80-90% of our shots. We just have 3-5 shutter instances of each one. We do this to make sure there shot doesn't have anyone blinking or hair in the face etc. We're photojournalistic shooters and we want to make sure it's perfect and when 90% of the pictures are candids we get a lot of goofy faces and halfway blinks. Becker (owner of www.thebschool.com and considered to be one of the most well respected photographers in the country and someone we have the utmost respect for, shoots WAY more than we do and makes us look conservative with our shooting. I think he said he took 12,000 photos at a wedding once with 4 shooters?).</p>

<p>In the end though it depends on how you work. We're about giving our clients an awesome collection of images that they can choose from and build their albums with (that start at 100 pages). We're extremely fast editors, weddings take us at most 8-12 hours if we're taking it easy and with our photography business, our design business, and our branding business this means about a week or two to get them their photos. We also shoot about 90% with natural light, so there isn't a blazing flash that goes along with that (we only have a single 580EXii and only go through a single pack of double a's per wedding, just the occasional rapid-firing of the shutter (it's not all the time, just short bursts at the same rate most take a single), and after the first 20 minutes the couple is used to it and don't care. I've never had ANYONE tell us to take less pictures, or complained about the amount we gave them. EVER. Mostly we do full day coverage as well, this means 9am to midnight or later sometimes. That helps with the picture count too.</p>

<p>Once again, to each their own. This is how we work and it works for us. I'm not going to get into a debate about giving too many or too few images, yada yada yada. For us it's about making sure every shot is perfect and I'm willing to work an extra hour or two to cull through a couple thousand images to do that. The results are worth it and our clients mean the world to us and we care for them like family. Our clients on average pay us between $3500 and $5500 a wedding and the day is way too important to take less shots just to prove you can or that you're perfect every time, in our opinion. So again, I'm not going to get into another debate, just take it or leave it and best luck either way. :)</p>

<p>---David

<P>

MODERATOR NOTE - Cathy - David - You may not have noticed the policy - no tags/signatures such as you did at the end of posts please.

<p>ShootQ is an awesome service for wedding photographers!!! <a href="http://web.shootq.com?r=cathy_and_david_photographers">Click here</a> to get a 30 day free trial of it. :) Basically it is an automated service for your business that helps you keep track of clients, leads, payment processing, etc. It also helps you create workflows and stick with them. It has doubled the number of leads we've booked per leads inquired since starting it do to the contact it gives our brides and we've had NUMEROUS clients tell us how much they love having it. It allows us as well to create a questionnaire that automatically gets sent out 30 days before their wedding with stuff like shot lists, vendors, etc for them to answer. :) It's super super helpful and I really don't think people can afford NOT to have it as part of their business. </p>

<p>We use our shootsacs. works great. We also remove the backcap during important events while they are in the bag until after the event.</p>

<p>Monique! Contact our friend Cathy Crawley, she's an amazing photographer in AU and is suuuuper nice. Tell her we sent ya. ;)</p>

<p>KISS wedding books (as Chris said), nuff said. What's wrong with a flushmount album?? They START at 20-pages, and go up to 80, which is very reasonable. Make sure as well that you don't confuse a page with a side, (left and right together is called a spread, not a page). It's just like a book. So if you say 20-pages that means 20-sides/10-spreads. </p>

<p>Tell them no. Don't undercut yourself as a photographer. If they find the value in your work they'll pay for it. If it's not your style or the type of client you're looking for, it's okay to say no. You'll be better off because you'll be happier, and they'll be better off because maybe they'll find a photographer in their price range that does exactly what they're wanting.</p>

<p>It's not a matter of good will. This is your business, and livelihood.</p>

<p>Check out our friend Parris Whittingham in NYC, Kenny Kim in Chicago, LaCour in Atlanta, Bobbi+Mike in Indianapolis, Kellie Kano in South Carolina, and Paul Johnson in Florida. There are some rockin ones out that way too. :)<br>

Plus we think we're pretty good too. ;)</p>

<p>Takes about 5 seconds to swap at the most. Though I would say this only takes place at high speed during the ceremony, between the 70-200 2.8L, and a prime (say the 35 1.4L)? Other than that we rarely leave our primary lenses (50 1.4 and 35 1.4L).</p>

<p>We shoot our formals at 2.8 on a 35 1.4L. I can't see the need for shooting any less than that, and we do it hand held as well. Make a line an invisible line on the ground and get perfectly parallel with it and have your clients stand on that line. With a little practice everything will be in focus when it needs to be without any problems. :)</p>

<p>Usually a year to a year and a half. We are completely booked for all of May2010. Last year we were completely booked for September and October of this year by August. We have quite a few 2010 weddings booked so far now. On average our brides spend between $4k and $6k and our non-refundable retainer is $1500 for local clients and $2500 for destination weddings. I find that as our prices have increased the time they have booked us extended. We usually book clients within a month of their engagement.</p>

<p>You edit the images, and keep the images. She should not be able to use them on her website, only on her blog with your permission if anything and must site you as the photographer lead. As well, you will retain copyright of those images and they cannot use them in advertising. If they have a problem with this, hire someone who knows what they are doing. The only point of him/her being there is to be another eye, but working for YOU. </p>

<p>This has happened to us from time to time. It just takes being understanding of them helps. We usually just remind them that this is for her more than anything and they usually come around. :-D</p>

<p>Awesome perspective Brianna. :-D Thanks for the insight! Our feeling is the same as yours and we'd hope our brides would be as understanding should this ever come up. :) Your vendors will be super-lucky to get ya! :-D</p>

<p>We shoot 95% of the time without a flash. Occasionally we'll just have someone get ready in good light. (There's nothing wrong with that photojournalistically, even Jeff Ascough does that). We rarely use reflectors or any of that stuff. Just find good light playing with iso and shoot with fast glass.</p>

<p>Recommend they hire a professional. Gain some experience before jumping in.</p>

<p>That said. For shooting weddings you can do it with the following:<br>

Nikon D300 or D700, (D40 won't cut it.)<br>

Nikor 50 1.4 and a 70-200 2.8.</p>

<p>With that equipment you could do a decent job. Anything else you can rent until you decide what you would like to work with for you main equipment. You'll also need a fast apple computer say, a 15" MacBook Pro, and Lightroom 2. Expect to spend upwards of $12k your first year in business. You'll also need an online proofing system, insurance, and a website as well as branding.</p>

<p>If this doesn't sound fun, or you want to do it cheap and only shoot weddings for sub $500, then I suggest keeping it as a hobby and just recommend hiring professionals until you have the equipment and experience. Try the book Fast Track Photographer by Dane Sanders and it will help you to decide. :)</p>

<p>We bring a shot list that our brides answer on our ShootQ system. That's it. </p>

<p>Not bad at all man. Nice selection of images on the home page as well and there's nothing wrong with having 20 images. It shows a large collection of work. I would suggest getting yourself a blog as well. Also, you should feel very comfortably going pro. I would suggest starting at around $750 - $1000 for your bottom package which would be very reasonable to start with.</p>

<p>Great work, and drop us a line if you ever need any help. :)</p>

<p>Jennifer --- Why aren't you charging yet? You've been shooting for three years now. It's time to start making a living doing this or to stop calling yourself a 'professional'. Part of being a professional is being okay charging for your services. Otherwise it's just a money pit. As well, you need to charge that money so you can buy the professional equipment you need to invest in your business. I do firmly believe that if you are going to make this a business professionally, you need to invest the money in the proper equipment for your clients. This costs thousands of dollars, and is expected with any business. You can either be a weekend warrior, or be a professional business person, not both. You have to decide which you want to be and go from there. Please don't take this the wrong, way, I mean this earnestly and for your benefit!</p>

<p>Also, photoshop is not the best tool. Lightroom or Aperture is for shooting weddings/portraits etc. Photoshop is for final touchups or photo manipulation or heavy action sets, not editing lots of photos or being able to properly organize them. I suggest that you start charging at least $500 - $1000 per wedding (a reasonable starting price) and start using that money to get some pro equipment and programs etc. You WILL book weddings at that price, don't be afraid to charge for your time!</p>

<p>Always a good idea, Aimee. Usually though, I find that people who are booking their wedding only 60 days away aren't worth the trouble, so I'll charge regular rates! I would say 90% of our brides book us 1 year + in advance and more often than not book us before anything else because it's whats most important. Ocassionally though we'll get a last minute awesome bride. But I find them rare.. :)</p>