cathy_and_david_bock

<p>As a photojournalistic approach to weddings we maybe give our clients 30-50 formals out of the 800 or so final images we give them. We use these images to create 100+ page albums for our clients. In the end the photos you take doesn't matter as you should be getting paid up front for the work you do instead of trying to think about what the client will or will not buy. For us, anything purchased afterwards is a bonus. We make sure we make what we need up front so that our mind is focused on the client and giving them the best possible product rather than focusing on trying to see which shot will make us a bunch of money on prints. This is the most important day in someone's life, every shot is just as important. </p>

<p>Agreed on what Steve said. Photoshop should not be your main editing tool. Photoshop is good for perhaps final touches or removing uncle joe's unsightly nose hair or applying TRA's. Lightroom should be the tool of choice. It's just like using InDesign over using Photoshop to edit albums. Sure they both work but one is MUCH faster and better equipped (and designed) to do the job. I would say a wedding takes us around 8 hours max to edit even with the thousands of photos we take and produce.</p>

<p>I also suggest learning how to NAIL the exposure and white-balance SOTC. If you can do this it will cut a huge chunk of time out of your workflow. :) </p>

<p>Scott --- Seriously? Even the pro's that swear by film at least edit their images somewhat. </p>

<p>Agreed Tim. Which is why I've said my peace and will let people continue arguing over that which does not matter to their business or their clients.</p>

<p>Let me put it this way. It's not the equipment you use that matters, it's the images that you produce. It's not how good your photography is, it's what makes you different. If you're worried about someone using a DSLR and actually think using film is going to 'impress your client into hiring you' i think you'll be in for a shock. The client wants great images, that are unique with a photographer they trust. It's probably the last part that's most important. The reason they are hiring uncle bob is because they trust uncle bob. It DOES NOT MATTER what you use to produce your images, if you cannot gain trust with your client and convince them that you are the best one for the job you will indeed be out of work. </p>

<p>Why not try coming up with ideas of gaining trust with your client rather than ways to convince them you are a professional just because you shoot film. In the end, the bride doesn't care what you use, only that you can capture their day in a way that's worth paying for.</p>

<p>Adrienne. Thanks. :) It probably took a little bit of tweaking to get my presets the way I like them, but from then on, just the click of one button. Just play around and save different presets till you find one you like. :)</p>

<p>We shoot 99% of the time in JPEG. Only occasionally will we shoot in RAW. It isn't a matter of 'good enough' it's a matter of whether or not the bride can tell a difference. With programs like Lightroom there really isn't much of a difference, if any, except that JPEG is usually faster. If you can NAIL (like 95% of the time) exposure and white balance SOTC then shoot JPEG and save yourself the trouble. We can nail it so we shoot in it. Everything is a tool, so just find which tools work best for you. Even Becker shoots in JPEG. If it's good enough for him it's good enough for me.</p>

<p>Steve--- I've looked at it before but I've never seen ANYTHING that comes close to the speed that I can with InDesign with the number of options, ever. Personally I'd rather use PhotoJunction if I wasn't going to use InDesign. I just like the integration with PS, it's ease of use, the quality of the exports, it's options... I dunno.. I just have never liked anything else and perhaps it's my background in graphic design. I'd rather spend the little bit extra and get InDesign.</p>

<p>David--- Thanks. :) Though I have to disagree with you on your statement about supplemental lighting. I think if you know how to do it right you can do amazing things in natural light. I've never once used supplemental lighting outdoors. I just don't see a need for it when the light that already exists is so beautiful. What's important to me is working with the existing light and working with it rather than making it work with you. Just my thoughts..</p>

<p>Kirk--- Spot color is when someone has say the roses red and the rest in b&w, like those hallmark cards with the child giving another child the flower and the whole thing is b&w cept for the flower. Ugh. I think it looks completely tacky and was out-dated years ago yet people still do it. It's one of those... just because you can doesn't mean you should sorts of things. Don't get me wrong I've seen it well done, but I never think it looks nice, or classy. Just personal opinion though. :) As always, to each their own.</p>

<p>Best,<br>

David.</p>

<p>Steve--- I was referring to going to a professional place that designs tons of albums. I'd have a major issue if a place that calls itself a 'design' business isn't using the right tools for the job. And secondly, I don't mind spending $700 to get the best tool for the job and giving my clients the best products possible. I see it as just as important as our L glass. It's part of the tools of the trade and you can either get the nice products that do the job best or the cheap ones that do so so. Personally, I'd rather spend more and save time. Just my personal opinion but to each their own. :) So no offense taken.</p>

<p>Natalie--- You're going to absolutely LOVE IT. It's SOOOO fast to work with and making adjustments is a breeze.</p>

<p>Neil. Perhaps they should sell their Nikons. :-D :-D :-D But yah. Equivalents to those.</p>

<p>And lovely... I misspelled processing. Boot to the head. >.<</p>

<p>Alright. Here's my adjustment. Proper white balance, fixed dress (it's no longer blue). It's not over-saturated or over-contrast-boosted. Took me about 3 seconds in Lightroom. Never touched photoshop once. If you know what you're doing in Lightroom it's faster if not more powerful than photoshop for working weddings. </p><div></div>

<p>Ray--- As many have said, the amount of photos that person takes doesn't matter and it's to each their own.<br>

Also, you don't NEED a bracket, if you know how to foof properly it's never an issue.</p>

<p>LOL! Not meaning too!!! :) </p>

<p>Sorry Ed but I think having the VR is a necessity to shoot weddings. A couple of stops can make a huge difference.</p>

<p>Lightroom is what you should be using to edit your images. It's about time, efficiency and using the right tool for the job. Photoshop is for hardcore manipulation, i.e. removing someone's face. Lightroom is for editing photos.</p>

<p>Just give them the disc, especially if the bride already has it.</p>

<p>We used to be graphic designers so we are very fast at designing albums and know what we're doing with them. What's most important here, though, is whether you're a designer or not. For your brides sake. If you're not a designer (i.e. you use photoshop to put together an album, that's the first sign that you're not and you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise) you need to outsource and get a professional to design the album so you can give your client the best possible product you can.</p>

<p>Look for places that use InDesign or Quark to put albums together. InDesign is the (design) industry standard for layout and design, anything else is a cheap imitation. If they use anything else, go somewhere else. If they don't know the difference between a page and a spread (i.e. they think a page has more than one side), run as fast as you can.</p>

<p>It's not about saving money or time, it's about giving your client the best so they keep coming back.</p>

<p>Just being honest here:</p>

<p>Personally, I would be disappointed as well. The post processing is bad, the compositions aren't very good and the only flash I can see in these is direct and popup. The grain/focus also looks like something on the Rebel range with cheap glass and almost everything is F4+. The spot color and soft focus effects is what curls my toes though. Hopefully she's getting more than 30 photos for the most important day in her life? Myself... I would give her her money back and start second shooting to gain experience before you continue doing them on your own. You need a lot more training especially in the post processing department and should not be doing these on your own yet. I would also invest in some better equipment. Perhaps a 40D+ or 5D+ SLR and some USM or L glass that's 2.8 or faster (if shooting canon).</p>

<p>Seriously, please don't be hurt by what I've said, just trying to be honest and as critical/helpful as possible and to save you the heartache of this sort of thing happening again. There's nothing wrong with going out there and getting trained up to be the best you possible! So learn learn learn, shoot every single day (and I do mean every single day, like 1000 pictures a day) for a month. Take your camera everywhere. Shoot everything you can see until you can use your camera in complete darkness and know what you're doing. It will make such a difference for you!! Keep at it, don't give up, work hard and you'll get there. :) We're always happy to answer any questions you have so feel free to drop us an email.</p>

<p>Our personal favs: 35 1.4L, 50 1.2L, 85 1.2L, 135 2L, 70-200 2.8L IS.<br>

I think that'd be the best place to work from. We love them.</p>

<p>Just give her the disc. Is it worth your time to do this? Is your time making a blanket worth the profit you get out of it? At the same time, she should be getting the high-res disc anyways. Just our opinion.</p>

<p>First, you don't need a tripod. You can easily fix that in post in quicker than it takes to set up a tripod and move it around for the best shot. I've always found tripods to be more of a hinderance than anything.<br>

Second, I'd work on your white balance and your post processing. Right now (even in David's edit) your wedding dresses are blue. Unless it truly was a blue wedding dress I'd fix that. This can easily be fixed in Lightroom.<br>

I'd also work on your composition. Study and live by the rule of thirds. Also glad to see you haven't over processed your images or done any spot-color. Stick to that and you'll continue on towards getting the high-end clients.</p>

<p>I would say what you need the most work on is your post processing. Your images are dull, flat, and exposures haven't been corrected properly. Also I would work on getting your images in focus as well as working on your composition. Right now it still looks like amateur work (I mean that as a skill level, as in inexperienced, not like... amateur as an insult) but you have potential and with some work and training you'll do well.</p>

<p>As well, why only 200 images? Don't be afraid to give more especially for a 2-day event. I would say pick out all of your best photos and ones that tell the story of the day along with one of each of the formals (of course) and whatever that number is, give it to her. Don't think about having a 'certain number'. Just give her your best regardless of what that is. Right now you've got a lot of images on the site that I would say shouldn't have been put up. Pictures with eyes closed, blinks, halfway talking faces, blurry shots. If it isn't something you would feel right of them framing, don't give it to them or put it up online.</p>

<p>To be honest, if you're not going to pursue it as a career.. don't do it. It's not fair to the clients if your heart/time isn't invested in it enough to make this a career. This is the most important day in someone's life, not a way to make a nice side income on the weekends. If your son on the other hand wants to go for it, that's great. It takes a lot of work (and $$$) to get into this business and be successful enough to do it full time but stick with it. I suggest he gets the book: Fast Track Photographer by Dane Sanders to help him along his journey and to put the best foot forward.</p>

<p>Best,<br>

David.</p>

<p>For us... I'd say in order.. Emotion/Light/Composition. We're photojournalism style photographers so posing isn't very important to us and usually for us we tell them a place to go and let them get in a position that feels comfortable to them. It leads to poses that are much more them, that friends and family can recognize. Emotion to us is the combination of expression and content. </p>

<p>I suggest that you focus most on what you're not good at. We're awesome at finding good light and composition from our backgrounds in design, we compose without even thinking about it. Emotion therefore is our most important. If you can't compose and don't understand the rule of thirds, I would make that your most important task to focus on until you can do it without thinking about it. If you're awesome at lighting, focus on it less as it will come more naturally to you. Make sense?</p>

<p>Don't be afraid to shoot in high ISO. We shoot at 6400 all the time. If you work well in post you can make that grain look super sexy. We love it in fact. Perhaps try buying some faster glass, like a 50 1.2L? or a 135 2L? Might help. We have never once had an issue with needing flash during a ceremony but usually we make sure the weddings we shoot at, we aren't confined to one spot the entire time. We warn the bride and groom to run from those places fast if they want good wedding photos. :)</p>