GerrySiegel

It is true as far as it goes. Lacking a photographic sensitivity nothing will do the job. The familiarity and ease of use and location of stuff and handholdability are important enough to make us want what we enjoy. I could never be happy with just the iPAD. But on a trip the iPAD does so much and keeps me informed. Which is after all as important as grabbing a photo. Switching to a camera separates the day to day from the pursuit of something else that is more a choice than a happenstance. If that makes sense. Snaps and selfies are for the hoi polloi. Bless them all..

I can't see the screen in bright light on my phone. My Lumix has a bright LCD and an EVF. My phone is just for emergency calls. But I am not starchy enough that I will never buy one. I have an iPAD which is nice. But I do not think of it as a camera. My Lumix will take a burst of photos and let me select one at 8 mpixels. It will do mutliple focus stacks in camera and merge them. So far I am tickled. But then it links with a cel phone or tablet...dum da dum dum...so we have to be open minded.

Nice bird bonding image Bill. Now that you mention it the backlight has a hearty shape...it is OK. I think I have to restrain scorn for the really serious devotees of the bokeh grail, Creamy, lens based with round apertures, Zeiss glass from the Rhine, the over the top part like any obsession. The ineffible quality of certain Zeiss lenses for example.. Here I am today reading a recent article on the latest hot audio goods to blow you away. Concert hall and studio and to die for sound to make us all drool.. That 400 is a nice lens I hear, kind of pricey but less than a new car... Following adjectives appy from the Economist1843 pub on latest audio speakers and phones: 'honeyed tones'. 'character,' 'full bodied, ''airy feel. ' ( If my wife can not hear the difference between AAC and MP3, who cares not she -no class I guess :). Is a honeyed tone a different frequency than a sour tone. don't bother answering...music used be pretty circumscribed in the 1800s and before we could make it a college course and define the beat and chords and orchestration et al. With a touch of individual honey of course. How to deconstruct and ruin the ineffible part ot the thingt--Sound engineers now find that the ear and brain fills in the spaces. So I am thinking to photograph is to deliver a visual illusion- as audio is an inner ear and brain illusion, nay? . So they say from the empirical jokers in sound labs. And yet, and yet, I sort of know what they mean about analog sound and digital sound. I think I hear something but just what? And yet, like sound, visual effects ( bokeh and OOF are kindred) are the artifacts that our brain says are important. Or are they important because others say they are important. A conundrum...If latter, then it is pure fashion and a will o the wisp. But men live long and well by such illusions, so not to snort... Fashion not quite as short as Mini Skirts were. I do not defame minis let the word go out, They beat torn jeans. :)

I am in the gym on a mat doing my post workout stretching. The young lady in leotards on a mat down from me in front of the mirrors is doing some ballet like things and poses with her cel phone in front of her. This way and that way and that way and then this way,,,, Did she get the perfect selfie. ( I was tempted to ask.) Took long enough. Crappy light in that X room. Better if she would maybe asked me to take the shot:) I am easy when approached.

One person on DPR has his little micro homily ( for want of a better word that eludes me) under his name. Reads "The best camera is one that you have with you. " No, the best camera is one you understand well enough to make the photos you want to be identified with. It may take several. No, film had its day. Polaroid was my instant gratification but costly. Digital is all I need. But lighting is given short shrift. I am working on the set up where I have a Quantum flash and a Turbo pack and a big umbrella to control light. The ultimate gratification for control freaks. But I am glad that film users keep some companies afloat. As well as other analog things, like vinyl.

The other day I was searching for an example of an interesting to me crtique give and take from a photo of the week. A sinister figure on a balcony which garnered a lot plus and minuses and had much input from the creator of this monochrome image. I thought I could find it by searching 1) photos of the week from two to three years back, but no dice, it does not seem to extract that far. or 2) my own history of comments where I might recapture the age of the subject. Again we seem to be limited to how far back we can list our personal comment history. I have got to be missing something. Am I?

And some good ones, since you mentioned it.. We still use and enjoy our Viera LCD model. Panasonic was a strong proponent of Plasma. I think they just dropped out of the TV business from what I can tell going on two or three years. But they are a broad electronics outfit. And still make toaster ovens and microwaves and high end video cameras and a whole bunch of stuff. National Panasonic. And Matsushita as I recall.. A good name for ages. Technics audio was top of the line, and they still produce a high end turntable for disk jockeys.... Not sure how many items they make for other imprimaturs either. I expect a bunch. Even did a Leica CL at one time. Long association led to the camera venture. May it thrive. Batteries and cells as well. Stuff that counts.

Supriyo, thanks for your thoughts. Now, to be fair, the messy background guy replied that he knew it was messy at the time and he had only a minute to compose and shoot. That would have been enough to settle the matter. But then he went into a rant about my former military status and a lot of baloney about his military status. I mean we all have stereotypes. If you think all Bostonians are thus, and you think all San Franciscans are so, then maybe one looks for someone on line to knock off and feel better. I may be projecting, But shoot, all officers are not assholes as one guy said on line. Some officers are assholes. I knew a few:) I digress. But we people are interesting as ever. Such pre conceptions kill the give and take so fast it makes heads spin and photos are part of the fabric of our outlook and mutual experience. We do need to disenthrall one way or another and I guess this is what the value of the discussion boils down to. PS, As for messy or cluttered background, they are often what makes a photo for me. This is my guitar teacher way back in Manoa Valley. I never learned well but I know at least three chords fairly well...goal was to learn to sing folk songs. She was my mentor in that post Woodstock days when folk was going out of favor. Somenone mentioned Mozart The sonatas. To die for. Haydn's as well.

If you feel you have a case to make then here is what I might do. Photograph all the items that cause you suspicion. Send them to Amazon and say you think this was pre used or opened box item. They may offer you a disount or gift card. As long as you have a warranty card one has to presume it was new. But then, if you are bothered why then return it and ask for another at their expense. Let us know how it works out..

Yes, the Camedia models of over 10 years back were solid and full of features. The Camedia C 5050 was my very first digital camera. It was so slick that I started to think of Olympus as well as my tried and true Canons over the years. I owned almost all the FD Canons and a flock of lenses. Now I still have the C 5050 which one gent called his little Leica. Well not quite but it offered so much for the time. Three separat card slots. Four AA batteries so no problem with battery types. A five mp sensor which just hit the OK spot for most average uses. I mean a whole book sported the results of shots with this one small camera. It had a tilt LCD. Which I used to be able to see at the time and an optical viewfinder. That matched the zoom. A fast lens up to 1.8. A macro mode and decent but slow menu up and down and across. Very slow write speeds it seemed. The Sony CCD did a good job but had to be recalled. Mine has a replacement. The zoom was slow moving and it was really chunky - is really chunky. Now the SZ 100 next to it is only a year old in production. It has a 20 mp sensor and functions galore. Mainly it has a beautiful large fixed LCD and a wee EVF. It still has a quality feel and has a decent lens. And whoops, it reall does say Leica. Now what more can one ask for? It is much easier to handle for me and is more user friendly overall. the company has learned some stuff over the years. Thirteen years. Price? About the same. Both have wee flash but the C 5050 took the intelligent Olympus flash system. And note the little top LCD which was thrown in. On off switch kept getting switched by accident. And with a cap on the lens, the zoom went beep beep beep--help I am trapped, that was funny..... Actually in constant dollars the Lumix is a better value all around. It shoots 4 K video and stereo recording, hot dog....where do they pack all that stuff in? If it had a little plug jack for an off camera flash I would call it perfect but it does have a small little puff puff on top...(Older Camedias had a plug jack for off camera flash when there was no hot shoe..it could have been adapted to the Lumix, but few would bother to use it I expect.) But me i still own that kind of cord.. And the Lumix, ah it uses SD cards and not the big CF cards. Or so called Smart Media or XD cards a la the 2004 Oly Them were the days.. But then Sony had its long fling with the Memory Stick, recall?

I carried this home. Any good. No, not heavy at all.

I mentioned this to Lex on his FB page and he has just about convinced me that it is great to have a small pocket computer on hand after years of flip phones for him. Lex now has some responsibilities for family that he has to keep abreast of.... I am not a hold out. I will think on it. But meanwhile, the Lumix compact is so great at what it does. Small wonder. I can even see the stuff in the wee finder they provide. My wife carries her iPAD everywhere, so I guess I rely on her calendar. When I traveled I needed a whole lot more. Now I just need a reminder. Milk, sourdough bread, english muffins.

A useful goal, Michael. It could top the New Years Resolution list as well. One gent, to showcase what bites hard and even now comes to mind, is the community member who reacted strongly to a comment I made about one of his portraits, a casual one. It was about the background being messy and obvious. So stating the obvious may have been out of bounds when the shooter was clearly a semi professional. He replied using my biography and sort of sticking it to me with some of my personal history. Yes, I guess we all want to know like who is this critter who thinks they know better. Do we then use confirmation bias when looking at his or her work? Clearly yes. Now the larger and more vexing question. How do we clear the mind of personal bias when looking at someone's work if they have quote got under our skin? ( On today's newscast I heard Rep Sanford decry oil rigs off the SC coast. How and when can I get out of my mind the escapades in Latin America. Sorry, politics just clouds everything lately and this PN should be a free zone.) I guess I say that we can use our prejudices if we are not so enthralled by them that they own us. Funny image. In the movie On the Town, one of the swabbies rushes through a modern art museum in a quick cut that shows their pursuit of Miss Turnstiles. One sailor just grabs a Picasso or whatever and swings it upside down on the wall.... Funny in a way and hit me so. Sometimes it does good to stand on your head once and a while looking at stuff. Or stand back. Or try this or that. Maybe someone out there can help us look at art in a different way. Who says that the Mondrian should be hung that way, --you know?

Too late to erase my last comments. I got a little too 'up in the clouds' with my thoughts- over the rainbow or too much left over egg nog with spirits... I like to think I have a multiplex mind, when it is more of a torrent of half baked sentences. Meaning, I need to re read my own stream of consciousness, take own advice be more of an editor to my own blather. I still pay respect to snap shots. No excuses for them is all. And Tim, I think we do get your message and reflections in case you wondered.

Supriyo, you and I and Fred and many others too many to call out by name are part of the thinking class. Nuanced minds, not necessarily full of highfalutin words so much as the ability to say things that are un offensive. Not hard. Just write it out and read it. And be not afraid to just erase it if it feels like it could be hurtful. It is true, that on some days I am testy. But that is what I save for other venues. -------0----------- Now, I wanted to add another episode of comment and riposte that cut into my paper thick skin some. I was on a forum for users of Olympus Four Thirds and commented some suggestion to improve a shot of a seaside beach array of folded umbrellas and table. I can't remember the specifics but the crop seemed obviously out of whack so I said do this or do that...Anyway, the lady said something like " Come on Gerry, this was just a snap shot!" How does one respond that baby? Pretty good in its own daft way I say. Is there a reply that is sane even? So much of what I do and still do are essentially what I call snap shots. ( Now we start to grade levels of photography in a lax and generous way. Don't be so critical, it was just a ( fill in the blank)and had no purpose but to test the camera? It was the film leader that got a double image all by itself that I call abstract art today..) Well you get the picture. Hoo babe, some of my most enjoyable stuff are thus snap shots! Casual. Could have been on the cutting room floor but Fred said hold on to it Gerry you may appreciate it at a later time ( just kidding Fred no offense meant) Ok, what I am saying is that the shot, however casual, and however lighthearted, is one I own. Or you own. If dark energy somehow made it. without a human agent we can address all bets off and this discussion will soon destruct. To say do not comment or be so serious is to not own it. And to not own it says it should not be shown. Should it? Except on cel phones to paramours :) What do you think, Supriyo?....I know this gets kind of philosophical and squeezed the meaning of words. Yet words matter and they do apply to any discussion of photos. ( I do not know, does Annie Liebovitz get around using words to her followers and assistants-- Do they all know where she is coming from all the time or does she use pantomime and gestures. rhetorical Q..)

I would then add another bullet point on differing views as presented in the discussion --- that there should be no taboo words and very limited restriction in an open society on viewer's speech ( comments being part of the market place of ideas) unless there are extreme foul or nasty expressions. ( inciting abuse and so on) Just adding another summary of the progressive-/open public square approach to the net. I overstate but probably not too much. And then, who owns the tent set up in the public square? Ambivalence for me again.

The Beatles and their Sherpa guides traveled to the foothils of the Kashmiri Himalayas to seek Truth and Beuty. Paul said all they got was a couple Chines made T shirts with the kanji script letters on it. Translated as " Bokeh." Camera companies quickly saw its significance. And the faithful followed. It exists. It lives. It came from the mountain sages-- It read 暈け. ...mysterious Orient.

I was going to just post two words, Namely LAST WORD. Bite my tongue :) But I need to offer some recap. For what is a valid contrast of viewpoints. I have noticed this array of viewpoints, among others as I count them: - Fred notes that we need to be cautious about being too hasty and judgmental when we look at photos. Some take a while to appreciate. - We got a link to how amateurs use their pap that can even take down the most accomplished works from the canon. It is funny but we have all been there. - I made the proposition that it has pluses and minuses. We are all sensitive and language and hidden agendas can surface. Tim has suggested that a critique can feel like more personal than generous. Hard to dismiss. - When we shoot models it is possible, and has been seen, that people take license to make snotty comments on a model. " She is too skinny, feed the lady." Noone has yet said she should stuff her brassiere better, but that could happen if people get snarky. - Eye liner and make up are different from light and are a model choice that should be off limits. Lighting is tough enough to grasp and that is the intent, and if not clear, one needs to be reminded. - The word " disrespected" which is a kind of verb-noun thing that came up during the Watts riots and elsewhere has an iffy sound. We all think we know what it means, but when we use it to stop discourse, then it is problematic. I didn' care for it in the context of a makeup choice. And, Jnanian, if the shooter is not responsible for that choice, what the hell are we doing behind the camera? - Putting a photo on on line in a photo forum implies you get to comment both positive ( what do you like) and what do you think could be improved. In a group where membership has to be individually approved so it says, the implication is that members have some competence and are screened for same. This is a big leap of faith. So that leaves a field of some disagreement on how we treat on line evaluation. My comment once to Bob Atkins on the Photo of the Week was that a panel of pros should begin the evaluation. Bob replied with sense that my statement was a form of elitism. Well it is. I reaffirm that to comment at all is a compliment and a service to anyone who looks at the world and photographs it. We have a choice to scroll as Tim said. To moderate our language so that we do not offend is not easy sometimes. But worth the effort. Worst case is that we begin not a dialogue for all viewers but a row. And why come here to tussle, we can do that with the kids :) Fred talks about thick skin. I think that few have grown that skin, so maybe we are going to be left with the No Words and the specific critique calls, which do not get much critique from what I see. Any more general observations? I got no skin in the game- thin or thick... Really. Honest.

Re Mark's comment. " The only moderators fully qualified to maintain a free and open forum are its participants. Give and take with a measure of patience, humility, and humor." Well yes and no, Mark. Some of us have humility and humor. I myself have a lot to be humble about and my humor gets on my wife's nerves more than now and then. ( Oh gosh has it been over 50 years ? ) Patience is best after long sessions of meditation but who has time. Internet is a free fire zone. Cluster bombing from 30, 000 ft mostly. The sense that there is someone in charge who will intervene and keep dialogue from becoming tempest will in itself keep tempest under control. Now, it is oft argued that a little spirited bare knuckle stuff is kind of good sport. I find it does not help my reflux so I avoid it in web talk. Most of the time. I do not think that Tim can be mind melded with Fred for what it is worth. But we all know that. I recall how Lex Jenkins gave a frank appraisal of one fellow's general bitchiness- that he may took for cleverness- and sort of ameliorated his clever put downs. ( No Lex or Lex like moderation that I can see...low budget operation. Off shore lowest bid site who knows,- not me for sure, so much mishmash of structure so substance is for the future tense methinks. We can hope. Yet we make the content. And not moderation too. Not in real world) KInd beats clever. But speaking for the male gender it is easier to be clever than kind. So mark's spirited advice is directed to the kind and not the clever. If that makes sense. Aloha nui.

I know that iPhones and iPADs do very decent photos. And seem to be getting better all the time. But I do not need a smart phone at this time. So all I carried was a Samsung Rugby pre paid flip phone which is small size and does the job on my belt. Always with me. But picture taking is a worthless exercise. The cute Wonder Woman lady a Times was all in for some posing and we had fun, but I could not get a decent image no matter how I played with levels and colors and all that stuff. So I decided to buy a camera the same size as my flip phone and will likely try to remember to carry it on my belt. It has bells and whistles galore. When our car had an unfortunate slam into a short stopped old BMW I was able to document the mishap. Hey man, a camera is worth a gazillion words. Poor BMW, we had just a scratch on the front. Oh, here is the best I could do on that cute heroine with the shield. I like imprompu stuff. Just to share. Rainbows. Flowring shower trees. Sunset that flits behind the mountains. Why not a small camera or a smart phone if you need the functions. Meaning I understand the feeling, Sandy. Actually P and S are becoming almost a big camera substitute, The compression of data on chips and the ingenuity of companies that cater to more than the casual shooter who needs a small carry around gizmo. Mine is called the Lumix ZS 100 a small wonder among similar types coming to market. But phones are becoming de rigeur so I may bite one day too.

I like the seasoning imagery, Wil Marco. It is a fashion and there you have it. Will it hang around, like blown out jeans. Or like fancy tattoos and wide ear plug rings. Or like Lousiana hot sauce be on the table if we need it or ketchup on our steak. Taste is taste. For me, with Before Bokeh and After Bokeh days i am slow to adapt. Unless I know why and where to. I used to suck on a toothpick after meals. And I still can't recall why. Environmental portraiture to me represents the most vigorous portraiture. In galleries, the artist typically embellishes the subject with the emblems of his trade or his nobility or class or wealth or vocation. Not always, but blur is not that common or was not all that common. Even drop backgrounds had fields and grecian temples and the like. Just reflecting. A green screen is for putting a nice something there. A clear nice something on the telly..