scott_davis5

Just thought you all might be interested in seeing some results from

the 820c AURA version of Maco's Infrared film. As I understand it

the Aura version is only available in 4x5. Comments/thoughts

welcome. Shots are both from Congressional Cemetery in Washington DC.

 

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Try Congressional Cemetery... one of the oldest in the city, and a number of early (and not-so-early) American luminaries are buried there. It has become a major dog-walking spot - everyone from the neighborhood around it brings their dogs to let them run loose. Fortunately, all the dog-walkers seem to be pretty good about cleaning up after their pets, so the risk of stepping in a land mine is relatively low. Also, Rock Creek Cemetery - home to the grave of Marian Adams, with the famous statue "Grief" by Agustus St. Gaudens.

 

There are some really neat places in Baltimore to go photograph as well... Druid Hill Park, Federal Hill, Fells Point and Canton, Mount Vernon, and Bolton Hill are some of the more picturesque neighborhoods. I don't know if there's anything left of the old Mill along the Jones Falls (there was one that burned, but the stone walls and some of the interior structures of iron remained).

Yes- the T400CN has the orange mask - it is a royal pain to print on traditional b&w paper, because that orange mask adds not only about two stops of neutral density, but it also serves as a contrast mask which means you have to print about a whole grade higher than you normally would.

 

I used to LOVE the T-400CN because it was so easy to handle, from a processing standpoint. It was good to travel with because I could get decent processing for it anywhere. However, having seen what I can do with other films/processing combinations (particularly PMK Pyro developer!), I think I'm going to stop shooting chromogenics, and switch back to traditional black-and-white films.

 

The biggest problem with shooting T-400CN or its equivalents was that you had to overexpose to get good contrast and shadow detail, so by the time you were done, your highlights were really blown out and hard to print.

 

Here's an example - I can see some cloud detail in my skies on the negative, but the burning-in you have to do is excessive to get it on paper.

 

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Funny enough, the amount of correction required for IR focusing actually INCREASES the shorter the focal length. Wide-angles make up for this by having incredible depth of field, so precise focusing becomes less important.

 

As to the Maco 820c, consensus seems to have it that the best ISO to start with for exposing it is ISO 6. It's a pain, but you CAN hand-hold or mono-pod it, even with a medium-format camera. I've done a fair bit of it with my hasselblad and been quite happy with the results. This was shot at F8 @ 1/30th, going with the Sunny 16 rule. I'm pretty sure this was done with my 120mm Makro-Planar - if not, it was the 80mm Planar lens, and a Red #29 Filter.

 

 

 

 

 

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The ISO of 6 is absolutely correct. I'd take a meter reading with your meter set to 6, file that data away in your head, and then go with the Sunny 16 rule unless you're shooting somewhere that it doesn't apply, like a backlit situation. Then break out the meter, and do a difference calculation between an area of your scene which is fully lit and something that is in shadow, and use this information to make adjustments to your exposure.

Amazingly enough, between responses here and on another infrared forum I'm on, I've got four or five people already who have expressed interest. I'll keep hope alive until I schedule the first meeting and get a real-world turnout.

 

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I'm interested in organizing a Washington DC Metro area Infrared

shooters club. If anyone is interested, please pop me an email. The

idea would be a once-a-month get-together, either to talk about IR

shooting,processing,printing techniques or compare images or even go

out and shoot on group outings. In other words, your basic camera

club stuff, but specializing in Infrared. I hope to hear from you all!

I'll second a lot of things people here have said...

 

A: Southeast Asia is generally very safe. Just don't be stupid and flash a bunch of money or expensive things around, and if you are going to be alone at times, do it in well-travelled areas with good lighting and lots of other people, and don't be overburdened with your backpack and other travelling gear.

 

B:most of Southeast Asia has good, inexpensive film processing for color negatives. Processing in Thailand runs about 50% less than processing here in the US. If you're planning on taking a P&S or even a basic SLR, and shooting print film, I'd get it done there while you're on the road. Even Cambodia has good Fuji minilabs. If you shoot any slide film however, I'd leave that for processing in Singapore, Bangkok or Hong Kong.

 

C: get yourself a basic SLR if you can at all afford it, with 2 lenses - a fast 50mm for low-light situations, and a decent 28-105 or thereabouts zoom for most of your shooting. Look for a Canon Rebel of any recent vintage (the Rebel G or newer), and those lenses. If you have to compromise on budget, look for a Tamron 28-105 or get a Canon 28-80, but try for the longer lens if you can. I'd say a fast 35mm instead of 50mm, but the truly fast 35mm lenses are frightfully expensive. If you must go with a P&S, I second the Olympus Stylus Epic, or a Yashica T4. I think you'll find the fixed length lens to be too limiting however. It is very hard to get good portraits of people with a wide-angle, and the people of Southeast Asia are half the reason to go and take pictures.

As someone who has had several extremes of 4x5 (Sinar A-1, Agfa-Ansco, and Shen Hao), the best so far in terms of overall utility has to be the Shen Hao. I've been getting the most bang for my buck with it. Accessories are easy to come by, and CHEAP! I think Wisner charges something like $3-400 USD for his bag bellows- the Shen Hao bag bellows is $99, and real leather. It will give you all of the movements you could ever want (Rear rise, tilt, swing and shift, front rise/fall, tilt, and swing), 14" of bellows extension with the standard bellows, and it takes the common Linhof/Wista lensboards. While I loved my Sinar, it was a beast to drag around with the fixed monorail. The Agfa had one big advantage- 22" of bellows with the built-in tailboard extension rail. You couldn't use real wide-angle lenses with it because it wouldn't close shorter than about 120 mm. I'm keeping it around just in case I ever pick up a 14" Kodak Commercial Ektar to use it as a dedicated portrait camera.

 

Anyway, I think if you were required to choose between the Deardorff and the Wisner, I'd second the advice to look at a Deardorff, but make sure to quality check it extensively before committing to a specific camera. There are a TON of really abused Deardorffs out there, in desperate need of repair, and a lot of people who only know enough about the camera to know the name is desireable, so they'll make it sound like the nicest deardorff on the planet and stick you with a hefty price-tag for the camera up front and a hefty repair bill after you get it. At least with the 'dorff, you have multiple options for getting the camera repaired by someone independent and reliable.

Personal recommendation if you are thinking of the Tachihara is to save your money a little longer and get the Shen Hao. The Shen Hao has a LOT more movement than the Tachihara (front rise, fall, tilt, swing;rear rise,tilt,swing and shift!), including longer bellows extension and smoother controls. You can slide the rear standard forward for use with extreme wide-angle lenses, to keep the focusing rails out of the image. Also, if you get in to wide-angle, the (real leather) bag bellows are only $99 new. It uses the very common Wista/Linhof lens boards, so they are quite easy to find and inexpensive. If you scout around you can sometimes find NEW Shen Haos on ebay for under $600 USD - I picked mine up for about $550 I think.

Do you have a web address or other contact info? I'd be interested to see their products and price list.

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I don't know numbers for this film, but I have some results...

BPF 200, 2 1/4 rollfilm, PMK Pyro according to the Massive Dev Chart.

 

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Terrific stuff if you ask me. I'm shooting more of it and I'll let you know how it turns out.

Ditto what Armin said.... I've got a combi-plan tank also, and processed a half-dozen sheets of 820c Aura in it with excellent results, with room lights on after loading. The only problem I had with my Combi-plan was that it seems to leak from the fill and drain valves, which is a frustration because I'm working with PMK Pyro and then I have to wear gloves the whole time.

I don't think any of the Big Three are carrying it (B&H, Calumet, Adorama) because there was some issue of patent infringement. As someone who bought one basically sight unseen (I had seen pictures of it from their brochure), I am extremely satisfied with the camera. It takes standard Linhof/Wista lensboards, which are cheap and easy to come by, the build quality is fantastic, and accessories for it like bag bellows or roll-film backs are cheap cheap cheap!! (who else gives you a REAL LEATHER bag bellows for $99 ??? ). All the movements are silky smooth, and easy to adjust. You get up to 14" of bellows (if you cheat a little and use the movements on the front standard to over-extend it). For the price you absolutely cannot go wrong.

I have an old Agfa/Ansco that I think takes the same size lensboards and is of very similar design (tailboard). I have switched to using a Shen Hao field camera for most of my 4x5 work as it weighs less than half the weight of the Agfa and I can put a bag bellows on it and use lenses as short as 65mm without a recessed board. I happen to have an undrilled wooden recessed board for the Agfa. If you're interested, pop me an email off the board and I'll be glad to measure the dimensions and send you a price for it.

"Given a choice, I'd rather push XP2 or T400CN a stop vs under-exposing because the cromos look terrible when shot faster than EI 400"

 

Do you mean you will manually process your C-41 stuff and overprocess to compensate, or just underexpose and process normally? Pushing really means not only underexposing but also overdeveloping to compensate. In any case, you are losing shadow detail by underexposing, and overdeveloping boosts the highlights, so you are just picking up lots of extra contrast.

 

In my personal preference when shooting T400CN, I usually shoot it at 100, not 400, in part because I print on fiber-based VC papers, so the extra highlight density boosts the contrast up to compensate for the filtration provided by the orange mask in the film base.

 

Depending on how you will print these pictures, you will find the underexposure and/or overdevelopment to yield acceptable results. IMHO, you will start to get noticeable grain and reduced sharpness. When in doubt, shoot yourself a test roll of a similar situation in advance, when it isn't critical.

a couple of questions:

 

A: For Oskar Ojala - what developer did you use?

 

I've found the film to be extremely grain-free - finer grained than TMX 100, and certainly finer than TMX 400. I'm shooting it at ISO 6, and developing in either Rodinal or PMK Pyro. That excruciatingly slow speed has been the biggest detraction from it.

 

B: for Donald Davis - Where did you get your Aura in 120?

 

B&H told me that it is not available in 120 - only 4x5 sheet film.

Take a look at the Massive Dev Chart (http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html) and find another film that has similar development characteristics. I don't see the Bergger listed in the Dev Chart in the Ilfosol time table, so you'll have to extrapolate, but at least it gets you close.

If you like 1:25, you'll love 1:50. Although it means you increase your risk of carpal tunnel syndrome from spending almost twice as much time processing, the grain is even finer and the contrast better controlled.

I know what you mean about Maco 820c instruction sheet vs real-world conditions. When it first came out, they were suggesting to rate it at ISO 50-100 ! I don't know of a single developer out there that would produce acceptable results at that speed. Not even nuking it with Dektol 1:1 for 10 minutes! (which, by the way, is a cool way to develop Tmax 3200 - shoot it at 800, process in Dektol 1:3 for 3 1/2 mins at 70 F).

I wouldn't worry about the heat sensitivity of HIE. I once found a roll of HIE that I had taken out of my bag and forgotten about in an unairconditioned house in Baltimore for two summers (it could get over 100 F inside the house on a bad day on the third floor, where that roll lived in the summer, and it could drop into the low 40s in the hall in the winter (the hall was unheated)). I processed it and had no appreciable loss of image quality that I could attribute to the heat exposure, and no reticulation of the emulsion either. I'm still amazed.

I'm using a Red #29, and shooting at ISO 6. Develop in PMK Pyro at 2:4:100 for 13 mins at 70F. If you're shooting at 32, you're way underexposing. I'd say even shooting iso 12 is going a bit under. Also, you aren't getting much bang for your buck with the 820c (or Aura variant) and a #25 filter. There is very little IR effect. At least bump up to a 29 or get one of the near-opaque IR filters (the cheap way to do this is to find an unexposed, processed sheet of 4x5 E-6 transparency film and use it in a filter holder like a Lee holder that will take 4x4 gels, or cut a piece to fit a UV filter and then adhere it by the edges with superglue.

 

Also, I don't know what anyone is talking about if they say the 820c is grainy. Maybe by comparison to TechPan or T400cn it might be, but by comparison to HIE it is grainless. Stop using HC-110 or D-76 and switch at least to Rodinal 1:50 or PMK and get much smoother, finer-grained results.

 

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I'd like to herald by acclamation the suggestion to NOT bring your chemistry with you as you travel, and just ship the film home by FedEx. They are the safest way to get your unprocessed film home. Either that or save up your film until you get to someplace that has a lot of photo related services, like Singapore or Hong Kong or even a major city in India like Bombay(Mumbai), and do a really large batch of processing there. If you can plan it far enough in advance, have your chemicals shipped to you there so that they are waiting for you when you arrive.

Has anyone out there used Kodak HIE or Maco 820c with WD2D+? any

suggestions for starting times for normal development? I've looked on

the Massive Dev Chart and I'm coming up with a guesstimate based on

the difference between PMK 1:2:100 dilution and WD2D+ for some other

films. I'd prefer some advance heads up before I actually process

with it. I'll post my results if I go it myself. Many thanks in

advance!