philip_meadows1

Crusaders? Who said anything about Crusaders? "film is dead" apparently! I'm not telling anyone that digital is foolish, am I? Apparently a few of you are getting bent out of shape because I'm saying it is not and will not be for a LONG time if at all. Granted, it will become marginalised (possibly)but as I begged the question earlier: what have the masses gained? They still get crap from the 1hr lab. As for the developing countries, they spend a few hundred bucks (those that can afford a digi camera) and shoot lots more crap, choose a few they want and then get crap printed. No gain really but it sure keeps the commercial wheels oiled for a while.

Stephen, I did'nt intend to hijack your thread, but why if you know the answer to your own question (in your own mind) did you pose it? Or... did you need to know that you were on the right track and everybody agrees with your thinking? It does'nt matter at the end of the day does it. Photography is not a perfect medium and nor should it be. Digital pundits are trying to make it so and they shoud'nt. I think I,m gonna make a cuppa tea. If we had'nt tried to screw you al on taxes for tea we'd all be happy tea drinkers, Starbucks would'nt exist (you'd be able to take pictures of gals serving tea in frilly white aprons and you'd all think like me, a luddite buddie!

Must be that I'm a Brit, no? Even if what you believe is correct, the fact that the film market is enormous and will be worth billions for years. Even if Fuji or Kodak said tomorrow that they were effectively out of film as of today, some company would capitalize on that fact and but Fujis film technology and fill the market at a good profit. Why are digital (in the know)users so hell bent on trying to convince the rest of us that what they've just purchased is somehow the best thing since sliced bread and oh by the way, if you are not cashing in your film gear and dropping a few grand for the lates and greatest then surely you are some kind of $$$$$$$ idiot!

So what you doin here at the Leica forum or did you buy one of those Panasonic thingamajigs?

Brad, I do! Travelling the world is a huge part of my work with a camera. I've, ben to India twice, Cina 3 times, Europe 6 times (just got back last week) this year so far. June 25th I start a Seattle to Michigan to Seattle road trip twice upper and lower route. Where have you been this year?

Not arguing about the flexibility of digital Paul. I am embedded in digital output to the tune of many many thousands $$$. But my capture remains film and thats the way my ball bounces. Film is not dead and never will be. You are thinking too much like an American (no offence meant). You are forgetting that the majority of the film market is not NorthAmerica but rather developing countries, China, India etc,. They cannot and will not migrate to mainstream digital for 50 years at least. For crying out loud, they are just developing wind up radios so they can all enjoy the freedom of electronic media in a different way. Why? because they don't have or can't affor batteries! Sorry Paul we are a minority country in many respects and this will prove to be the limiting factor in market growth for the digital kingdom.

Stephen, I've worked with the 1Ds and if I were you I'd stick to your Leica. Digital is for individuals who either need fast turnaround or shoot enormous amounts of images or are in need of an electronic crutch. A IDs file is 11Megs. A good scanner will give you 4000ppi 64 megs in 8 bit double in 16bit. No Canon lens is as good as a Leica lens or a CV for that matter IMO. Truth is, digital technology was developed for the consumer market. Camera companies were running out of things to make to keep sales and profits up. The fact that digital is beneficial to press photographers and some other high volume users is a fringe benefit to them. Digi is the biggest con of the 20th century as far as photography is concerned. What have we gained? Imediacy? more like crap quality for the average user. The general public know nothing about color space management, printing management work flow or the rest. They still shoot images, give the card to the 1hr lab and get crap prints. As for sharing on the wb, well we could still have had that by having a scan service at time of processing. Kodak put millions behind that idea but sadly were outdone my the hard ware manufacturers like Canon and Nikon. Do you remember when camera mags were all about lens reviews? It's what mattered most, right? Now look at the mags- megapixel this and megapixel that, jeeze lens makers are having a ball turning out cheap glass for the discerning megapixel wannabe! I'm blowin a fuze now. Say, what was the question? Oh yeah, thats right, stick with yer Leica my friend films goin nowhere in our lifetime!

You should be getting $500-600 for 6-7hr shoot. Any les than that, stay in bed!

$20.00 for film and processing? Depends on your workflow though does'nt it? I get my film dev'd only and scan an ovesize contact sheet set which I bind and give to the client. After we decide on images for album I then make very high quality scans and print and bind the albums myself. My point here is that it is too cart blanch to quote that digital is better or that digital is cheaper. It's dependant on many things. I don't hear film guy's screaming about how there workflow is superior or cheaper or better than digi. This is my only point here! I suppose this thread would have been better as a stand alone. I've got to leave for a weekend pleasure shoot so maybe someone could continue this on a new thread as previously suggested. I think it might get some interest but all in a good spirited way guy's, o.k. "I'll be back"!

Al, you're right on the money about "no excuse"! I've been doing this stuff for close to 20 yrs and it's the only time it's happened. I too shoot with M's, 2 of em and it sounds like I use the same kind of discipline you do. Ah well... sometimes things go wrong but what makes a pro stand out from the rest is how we handle those problems and at the end of the day experience, timing, timing, timing and alas an open view of the world in front of me thru the M allowed me to get my shot. Everyone goes home happy and I say to myself "stick a roll behind your ear in future" LOL!

You're right about film though, it has never been so cheap. For what its worth here's my compelling financial argument. Decent digi camera x 2, couple of decent lenses, 4 gigs of cards, batteries etc, etc,. Iwon't count computers and all that crap coz I have em anyway. Well, that lot costs what? $10.000! If I buy $5000.00 of film and pay $5000 to process it, I've shot 50 weddings 3 yrs worth. I've grossed $175,000 and my kit is still worth the same value. The bottom line is: I'm still making money from weddings and I'm having lots of fun. The 10,000 digi kit is worth 2,000 so I could even take my $8,000 savings on depreciation and buy more film and so on. t the end of the day, I view wedding photography as a game. I love looking thru my M viewfinder and hearing that click! Oh god, I should go over to the Leica forum now should'nt I?

 

Regarsd

Don't memory cards get full then? Why do you digital guy's always seem to want to find a way (whenever the oportunity presents itself)to justify the digital bandwagon? For sure, it's a tremendous medium and well... if you want to shoot it, buy it. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not criticizing digital because I am heavily invested in the digital workflow and I mean HEAVILY except for the camera. If you've got 221 reasons for never shooting digital, I'll give you 222 for shooting film. Lets have some fun here, all those in favor say I, followed with 10 good reasons for film. All those in favor of digi say I, followed by 10 good reasons. Come on now make em compelling at least. A few pro's among us might answer questions for newbies around here that they haven't dared ask.

They are still on honeymoon! This was 2 weeks ago. You are not kidding about stress and I got a parking ticket in front of the church!!

Found myself seperated from my gear with ONE frame left on roll and

had to get the shot 1st time. This was the only requested image by

the bride (please get the picture of us exiting with the bubbles!).

 

Stressed all night until I saw film next day. Phew! Whats yours?<div></div>

Chisso, absolutely yes! I only shoot color if the B&G cannot or donot want to be convinced otherwise. I shoot 95% of my weddings in B&W and when I do any promotion at all, it is ALL B&W. Jeff Ascough does do color also by the way. As a fellow Brit I'm biased to his work which IMHO puts him head and shoulders above most.

Thanks folks! I printed it up today on my 7600 10.5 x 11.5 sort of. Managed to lift the shadow detail in CS as previous poster suggested (thankyou)! I'm very pleased with the print although I have to say, I LIKE a B&W version too.

 

Cheers.

I love the crop, gets a bit small though for 11x13 print. Too bad I can't go round the corner and shoot it again. About color: I am not sure why the jpeg looks a litle washed out because the Tiff worked up for a print is fully saturated and looks amazing. I did move the color space from rgb98 to sRGB or web. Did this effect saturation?

 

Thanks for you comments. The film was Fuji Astia by the way which I have come to love even for landscapes.

Thanks for that mate!

Please critique<div></div>

Stephen, tricky one this, eh? I tried.

Well said Mary, kick his A**!

Edward, did you correct this file for color balance or is it just a straight conversion job. Seems very blue IMO.

50mm and a can of deodorant (you'll be zooming a lot with your feet). A non L series 50mm al-la 1.8 or 1.4 will blow all others into the weeds with excellent technique and lots a change for film or memory cards!

Steven, by the way, I forgot to mention that I live in Issaquah. Give me a shout I'll hook up with for a coffee. 425 985 5178.

Eh up Marc, yep done that too but the trouble is you gotta take 10 of em, you ever tried to load a Holga in a hurry? So... 10 rollsa film = 10 cameras. Alas my steak dinner is on the table though LOL!

 

Canonet Glll, now thats a working mans camera, I mean, compur shutter, great glass with some special stuff in it that nobody can spell. Seriously though, I have used one on several occasions along with my uhh hmm, back up Leicas. I love all this creative stuff, long live the modern bride!

WOW! Canonet Glll $50 off ebay Canon 277t flash $60 off ebay, 20 rolls Fuji 800 press, 1 2x ND filter. 4 AA batteries (2 in flash, 2 in pocket never needed). 8 hrs later and $5000 better off! Sell camera & flash on ebay and buy a steak dinner! WHAT were you thinking my friend?