watchin

Thanks Todd, Gerry, and Jim.

Well it looks like I'm back to the plan. Bounce bracket and FL20 or

Oly bracket and FL40.

Jim I think you were right about the Metz being a bit too much I finally

found a real price for the adapter module et al. It'll end up around the same price as the FL50...oh well

Now to find the right prices ;{)

Anyone got one of these combos... reasonably priced..

Thanks again all.

Greg

WOW that was quick... Thanks Todd!

The hot shoe on the camera or a bracket isn't an issue, since the camera doesn't even have a hot shoe... gotta use a bracket of some sort ;{)

I looked at the other units as well, that's why I'm down to this list and asking the questions. The fiddle factor was just toooo high for the end user.

As for the compatability with the C-3000Z - I've already checked that and they are among the "recommended" set from Oly for that camera.

The hand hold might work for me, I'll have to check on that, don't know if he's a clutz, don't think so... that might be against his grain though. But it's an idea.

All the shots with this will be indoors, 10x10 room white walls white ceiling, medium gray background, 5 ft from camera to subject to background.

BUT I know the black tux syndrom well (I do weddings.) Two answers I've got. Manual mode or spot metering. Can't help with the E10 though, I only use a Fuji S2 with Nikon SB80dx strobe or old Honeywell 880 potato masher autosensor. BUT using manual mode you set it up for 12 feet, prefocus, preframe, and shot 90% at that distance. Using spot meter and set flash for -2EV, meter on faces, AE lock and go.

Have you tried posting to Weddings forum?

Okay more ideas to bounce around... any other clues for me?

BTW - forgot to mention... looked at the metz 32 but couldn't find

it available anywhere. Is it discontinued? or do you have a secret

stash ? ;{)

Sounds like everone is up on the FL-20... But how can I bounce it?

and will the TTL sensing still work with it bounced anyway?

The METZ and the FL-50 are too much, huh, Kinda what I thought. But

are there any alternatives with the TTL and the tilt ?

Does the 34CS series do TTL as well(spec seem to say no)?

Okay good start... more ideas I need I think...

I'll send Todd a note (see if we can drag him into this ;{)

Thanks so far.. KEEP GOIN problem ain't solved yet.

PS - reason for tilt - he's doing head shots of people and even

diffused lights on any kind of direct lighting are giving ugly

shadows that interfere with what he's trying to show. I did some

sample shots (with my high end gear) and figured out the lighting

arraingment that will work in his place. ERGO the bounce lighting

(white ceilings white walls), a simple neutral backdrop, the rest

is dictated by his experience and need for repeatability.

I've got a friend with an Oly C-3000Z that he wants to take<br>

head and shoulder portraits with in the office. <br>

He asked for my help so...<br><br>

I've looked at it and determined that the built in flash is <br>

just not enough for what he wants (needs a bounce flash unit).<br>

<br>

I've looked at several flashes and need some expert opinions <br>

(as I'm not an expert on the Olympus C-3000Z and it's ilke.)! <br>

<br>

Oly FL-40 - good price used < $150, not available new, seems to have

all functions <br>

Oly FL-50 - expensive > $275, available new only, same functions <br>

Metz 44 MZ2 w/ SCA 3202-M2 - moderately expensive >$150 <$250 <br>

seems to have all functions and automatics<br>

<br>

All of the above would require the FL-BK01 flash bracket and the

FL-CB01 5pin-5pin cable ~ $90 to work with the camera.

<br><br>

Questions are:<br>

1) which of these units do you know about first hand, what's you

evaluation of them?<br>

2) which of these would you avoid and why?<br>

3) which of these would you buy in a heartbeat? <br>

4) are there any other alternatives? <br>

<br>

Criteria:<br>

a) this is for a non-photographer who wants something for a business. <br>

b) changing cameras is not an option. <br>

c) budget is ~$500 for everything. <br>

d) the less manual the better, more automatic and fool-proof the

better. <br>

<br>

Help!! I've already put together my ideas, really need some

confirmation or contradictions...

<br><br>

Thanks in advance <br>

Greg

Joe - sounds like a good priority set. Be prepared on the cost of filters though... you get what you pay for...

If you use lenses longer than 135mm I'd reconsider the monopod.

It's twice as convenient as a tripod, and about half the cost.

I never really thought about it until I used one once, wouldn't be

without one now. I'd never give up my tripod, but it hardly ever leaves the "studio" (my wife calls it the back bedroom, go figure).

When I go out with the S2 for a walk I take 3 thing minimum, 80-200 f2.8, 2x converter, and the monopod. YMMV

Also makes a great walking stick ;{)

All of the above PLUS

ZING action strap - $15 - Adorama

a WHOLE SLEW of lenses (most of which will cause you to auction your first born ... or rights there-to ;{)

Good monopod

Good circular polarized filter to fit at least your main working lens and for every lens a multi-coated ultraviolet/haze filter of good quality.

jm2c

Greg

I thought you guys were looking at building a Hyundai on steroids.

Ya know - cheap with lots of power. Actually these are Hummers and

a Hummer with an M1 Abrams engine (and maybe the gun too)!

However when compaired to the high end battery systems(you did it, I'm now in research mode...;{)...

These have just about every aspect beat for half the price, except for

the size/weight. I can deal with the wieght issue though, that's why I have a pickup (right). I'm a little put off by the fact that I'll need a ramp to load the pickup now.....

Oh well, gonna do some more research.

Thanks guys! I'm learning...

Marc - excellent work, thank you. There is nothing in those shots but

beauty that I can see.

Thomas - thanks for the info.

Oh my - I was angsting about $500 White Lightning power pack...

This will give about 3 times the capacity though, WL is 15Ah this

is 53Ah (if I read it right). Another Big difference is 15 lbs versus 60 lbs..

Well I'll just have to see how it goes.

Mani said:<i>

I have read that formatting a CF card in the PC first, assigning a cluster size of 32, and then re-formatting it in the Camera before use, can help clear up a similar problem. Do a search here on "cluster size", maybe?

</i><br><br>

To help clarify this a little - cluster size is the number of blocks (in units of 512 bytes each) or total size of a unit (in kilobytes [kb]) that are allocated, read, and written at one time on a disk.The cluster size is assigned during initial formating defaulting according to the total capacity of the unit. Cluster size is refered to as "Allocation Unit Size" in Windows XP and is measured in kb.

For a 512mb Lexar CF the default format is FAT (AKA FAT-16) cluster size 8kb.<br>

<br> The CF cards are in fact a hard drive (disk) to the PC and the camera. You don't need special software to read/write/format the CF

on a PC UNLESS you have a wierd CF reader. A standard PCcard/PCMCIA adapter or USB reader will allow you to access the CF just like your C: drive.

<br><br>

What Mani is refering to above is setting the cluster size to 32kb or

4 times the size of the default, if the camera can deal with that then

you should be able to speed up the writes, it depends on the write buffer size in the camera. Using an example 2 MB file size this means that the camera will create an image as 250 writes for 8kb cluster or 63 for 32kb clusters.

<br>

okay enough geek talk ;{) <br><br>

Here's a tip on how to look at it... in Windows XP <br>

start -> programs -> accessories -> system tools -> Disk defragmenter <br>

Then <br>

click on the CF card in the volume list (probably E:), NOTE - the file system it lists, then hit analyze,

when the completed box pops up click "view report" -- TA DA

everything you didn't want to know about your CF ;{)

<br>

NOTE - the default for reformat on Windows XP is FAT32, take care to

reset it to FAT if your camera won't read the CF card....

<br>

Have fun, <br>Greg

One of the questions you should ask yourself.<br>

<br>

Are the lights going to be stowed, moved, setup, and taken-down repetatively?

<br>

A monolight system will do that a lot easier (imho). They are lighter

to haul, and you can add to them over time. An advantage is that

you don't have to replace the pack when you want to go up in power, since each light is it's own "pack" you can mix and match as need.

<br><br>

I've used the Norman pack, the Novatron 240D, and the Alien Bees 800 monolights.

<br>

I prefer the ABs. For the feature and usage set they are good

for the price. Or you can get the White Lightning Monos (made by the

same company). The 320ws (actual on each head) is $280 for AB-800 and $330 for UZ-800 or $400 for X800 at WL. Slightly different features on each unit. I'd go with either the AB or the X, the UZ doesn't offer much for the price difference.

<br><br>

The biggest advantages I've found:

<br>

a) you can set each lights output independantly over a 5 stop range, most pack systems I've seen are either all up or 2 settings max.

<br>

b) the modeling lights (although a little weak at 150w on the AB)

can be set to track head output, wink on firing (visual confirm

of firing), be full on, or full off.

<br>

c) the AB have built in fans (QUIET fans)

<br>

d) the AB have a remote control system that you can control all the

functions of each light from the camera, with up to 16 lights in 16 banks, but come with built in slaves and corded capability. (full set of 4 recievers and transmitter is $500).

<br>

e) you can start small and add as you need.

<br>

You might want to look at the modifiers and light stands they offer, the price is good and the quality is very good. I picked up a 48" brolley box for $40,

a 30x60 softbox for $130, and an umbrella for $30.

<br>

Just something else to look at ....

<br>

Wish you luck,

<br>Greg

I've considered this a couple of times but the budget was just too tight. Well, the budget hasn't gotten any better but I'm considering again. The references mentioned above will help if I decide to do it

myself.

Please let us know how it all works out !

A couple of additional questions:

1) Can someone give me an estimate on the total cost for a project like this?

2) Am I better off buying a completed system? I'm competent with DIY component assembly, soldering, cabling, packaging, and such.

3) I've got Alien Bee lights which have thier own battery system (a full sine wave system I believe). Would the less expensive suggestions above be compatible?

I've got 4 Sandisk CF and 1 Lexar. I'd try the reformat first.

BUT you may want to return the Lexar anyway. Even though my Lexar is

rated faster than the 2 of the Sandisks, it writes slower. The Sandisk

Ultra II and Extreme are usually great.

Also check (on the PC) how the disk is formatted, if it's FAT32 and the camera is optimized for FAT16 that

will slow it down (and visa-versa) , so try reformatting it both ways..

The camera "should" format it in it's native mode...

but don't count on it.. some cameras don't really reformat they just reinitialize the directory and File allocation table. All CF come through factory formatted (AFAIK).

Doing a slow (full) reformat on the PC will allow you to select the

format level. I've seen a couple of cameras (one of the Olys and a P&S Kodak) that require another format in the camera after the PC format. They didn't change anything except to put down the directory structure. Don't know how it works on a MAC, haven't played with the D70 (yet...)

BTW - the AWS stuff (ie Lexar software) only works with devices that

support the feature (from what I've read). Does the D70 have AWS support?

Hope this helps,

Greg

Is your medium film or digital?

With digital you can do both from the same shot with a little

postprocessing. That said ... do the shoot in sharp focus (light tricks

and posing are okay I think, in moderation) IMHO.

Take your time, but talk to the model about the shoot before hand.

Also depends on who's paying...

BTW - soft focus is NOT "in focus", and you'll only tick off the

the reciever at the agency if you do that (someone said circular file I think...)

It's the middle of the day, the net is quiet and I'm getting server

timeouts every other access. Something is definitely wrong at the

server farm.

It's not just IE, I've tried IE, Mozilla, Firefox, Konquerer, and the Gnome browser (what do they call that??) all with the same results.

SLOWWWLY

TIme on a ping is between 10ms and 51ms.

A couple of points -

Lawnmower analog is right on - I have 2 mowers as well and do the same thing to both every spring.

Jeff - you MUST hate to shop, or is it just not spending money...

Robert - KEEP ALL OF THEM ! then you can wrap your arms around them

and scream "They're mine ! < insert maniacal laugh here>" ;{)

Each lens has it's strong point and use. The photographers job is

to use the equipment to get the proper end result he (or the client)

desires. Am I right?

So if you can do it with 2 lenses... Hooray! if you need 9 okay !

Besides the damn things are paid for right ! So keep your toys.

Now where did I see that 600mm f4 advertised.... <second laugh goes here>...

You'll be in panic mode for a while, then migrate to fight or flight mode for a little, then to butterflies, then to edgy, then to mildly nervous. Finally you'll be nervous until you start the shoot, and should click into a groove and sail mode. (I think that's what Timber is referring to...) However if you ever go out for a wedding NOT mildly nervous,

quit doing weddings you've lost the edge to be sharp.

Took me 6 months or about 15 weddings to get there.

Most seasoned wedding photographers I know kind of click with the first shutter trip and go into the groove mode.

It'll get better, but the adrenalin surge never quite goes away, at least I hope not.....

Novel suggestion - Ask her what she likes to shoot.

Ask her what her interests are other than photography.

Give her several cameras to hold and play with to see what she's

comfortable with.

Base the decision on that. I once had a Pentax given to me, beautiful camera, I hated it because it was too small for my hands. Sold it bought a used Minolta and loved it.

How many of us have had the same experience? So taking that into account... show her the options, let her choose, work from there...

She supplies the parameters, you supply the expertise!

Just a suggestion,

Greg

An alternative to look at... A TLR ?

That type of camera teaches you composition, framing, incamera croping

allows you to see what you are shooting when you pull the trigger. They are generally rugged, give complete control, work extremely well in low light, are simple and less complicated.

An old example is the YashicaMat 124+. I haven't used one of the Seagull

replicas but I'd look at the 109 (that's the one with build in match needle meter and in finder info display I believe). The quality of 2 1/4 negatives will allow her to do outstanding prints.

In addition you can get a new one for under $250, which leaves enough

for a auto-flash ($40), case ($50), and tele/wide aux lens ($150) as well.

35mm is not the only answer ... just playing devils advocate...

IMHO - Excellent subject posing, expressions, timing... cropping needs some work, you consistantly chop the tops of peoples heads off, which wouldn't be as noticable if the focal point of the shot was more centered. Tight cropping and high contrast are good tools used judicously. Visual centering tends to hide other crop outs.

Watch the hands to the face, they sometimes disrupt the flow of the visual, in the photo of the girl with parka it works. I'm not sure about her other shot though, I would have emphasised her eyes instead. With the hair framing the face you are naturally draw to the eyes, but the hands and cheek distortion draw you away.

I like the way you've captured the interplay of the couples. Nicely done.

Overall - be proud you've done well

Greg

Okay.. to answer your original question.

I would not use the 3271 with those lenses. The ones I looked at are

too light weight for the heavy stuff. The RC0 (Hex) or RC2 (square) systems will work better.

I use the RC2 QR system. No slips no rotates no drops no losses.

The 3157 plate is heavy enough to hold my Nikon 80-200.

You should get the architectual plate 3157NR for the lens.

The plates snap into the QR base and have a lever to snug them as

well as a safety clip to lock the lever. I stumbled across a plate that fits the RC2 QR and will lock in either direction, that's what I

use on the Fuji S2, so no 90 degree rotate problem with my 3265 action head. With a 488 ball head who cares? The body goes on one way the lens another ... it's a ball head, right.

I looked and tried the ARC mount, I prefer the snap in solid to a slide in(ooops didn't tighten the little nob enough, there's $5K on the ground), slide out mount.

I liked the look of the RRS stuff but the cost and the slip out paranoia stopped me.

Just my 2 cents...

IMHO - here's what I see from your description...<br>

<br>

> in a hotel ballroom (least 20 feet high ceiling) setting with stage lighting<br>

> lens 80-200 ED <br>

> Sto-fen (45 deg tilt) <br>

<br>

recipe for underexposure .. <br>

High ceilings = no bounce light left so you're exposing from the diffused light coming off the flash directly and ambient light <br>

80-200 = long distance light fall off from flash won't reach <br>

Sto-fen = 1 or 2 stop light drop <br>

<br>

I would recommend (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong ;{)<br>

<br>

no bounce flash - straight on to subject with flash above lens on bracket<br>

no sto-fen unless subjects are 6-8 feet away <br>

shorter lens - 80-200 is heavy and will cause photographer shake even with it set at 80 <br>

Monopod - if you're going to use the 80-200 this will provide a stable point <br>

<br>

Frame and focus for 10 foot mark, set camera for that point, let subject come to you (old wedding photo trick)... don't try to track

the subject, even with Auto-focus and TTL you'll have problems.

<br>

Hope this helps,<br>

Greg

OH YEAH - forgot one or more- If there is a Thunderstorm coming into the Springs from the west (over the front range) head up to the Thunderbird

restaraunt (if I remember right it's off of Rock Rimmon Rd., or maybe the next exit south on 25 ) it sits on top of a hill with a view of the whole city, you can get great lighting shows up there, and they have great frozen magarita's !! (get a pitcher, stay the night, call a cab ;{)

Try the "Happy Farmer" for dinner, and the "3-thieves" used to be the best steak house in town (32oz Tbone with the best baked potato I've ever had )

Understand that all of this information is a few years old, so confirm

the eatery info with the people where you are staying.

Have a wonderful time, If you go to Victor stop in my great Aunt Lille's old place

(I think it's called the Golden Nugget now) and tell my distant cousin

Greg said hello... (that'll confuse the hell outta them and they'll spend days trying to figure out who I am (ROFLMAO))