gareth_harper

"Just for fun, check out a similar discussion at apug.org, "Leaving Tri-X"."

Well I love tri-x, I am certainly not finnished with tri-x, but I am finnished with APUG!

HP5 is wonderful, I use it as well as tri-x now, but the two are quite different.

"However, I do feel that the 1.3x crop factor would be an ideal compromise of viewfinder size and overall image quality. The soft corners would be cropped and there would be sufficient reach. However, it seems that Canon is not interested in continuing this line, which is a pity."

Eh? What you are basically saying is that you wish to use lenses from a bigger format so you can avoid 'soft corners'.

On the other hand what you might be better doing, is buying the best quality glass for the format you use.

As for digital SLR's getting near to the quality of medium format, you gotta be kidding.

I think many people under rate the performance of film cameras becuase either, they don't understand how to, or they are not prepared to put the effort into finnishing their photographs.

That is, of course, the beauty of digital, quick good quality results.

What I see, and I think it's what is emerging, is two lines of DSLR from Canon.

Full frame DSLR's for the pro's and enthusiasts, and smaller 1.6x DSLR's for the snapper who likes an SLR.

Also the 1.6 crop allows Canon to make a very compact body which is appealing to many people.

I'd expect the 20D to go full frame in about 24mnths, the 350D to become more sophisticated, with couple of budget base models coming in under the 350D to complete the line up. Prices will also slide quite a bit. Remember at 500quid the base model is affordable but still not exactly cheap.

Also expect to see a bit more activity in the medium format world.

As for the 5D, well as many others have said it's the camera I've been waiting for. Not perfect, but at last a full frame DSLR I can use along side my film cameras without having to think different. The price is hefty, but seeing as it doesn't need a 17-40L to turn it into a usable camera I might be able to swallow that bitter pill.

"After everyone had spent a fortune in its DSLRs, Canon will then reintroduce the FILM cameras to the market and claim that FILM cameras are in fact the best."

Reintroduce film cameras? When did they stop making them? I just bought a new Canon film SLR a matter of weeks ago.

Of course they are the best!

Sean, try and standardise on one temperature.

Usinga sink of cold or hot water as required you should be able to set the temp of your developer to exactly the temperature you need. Being as consistant with development as possible helps.

I would caution against pushing film, particulary several stops unless you are already confident with that film at it's nominal value, or confident as a whole with the process.

Ilfosol S is OK for a one stop push, but as pointed out by others here it's not an ideal developer for push processing. DD-X would be a much better choice.

I'm happy to push tri-x a stop, and while it will push further, I usually switch to Delta 3200 in DD-X for low light work (beware of Ilford's dev times if you go this route).

Good luck and do let us know how you get on.

Pretty much a filter is a filter is a filter.

I've got various brands of filter, Hoya, Kood, Jessops, B+W, Hamma and Mamiya. Can't tell one from the other in terms of quality.

Lens hoods offer some limited protection.

I always shoot with a filter on the end of the lens. I'm always cleaning my filters but I rarely ever have to clean my lenses.

Also filters do not degrade image quality, in fact many filters can and do improve it.

"I,ve once seen a comparison between the 50/1.4 and the 50/1.8 and the 50/1.4 was very clearly sharper, which is only normal. "

Many people have reported that the 50mmf1.8 is slightly sharper, the two are after all almost optically identicle. The extra cost in the f1.4 is, well it's f1.4, has extra blades and much better build quality (around the optics) The softest of Canon's 50mm lenses is their (discontinued) EF50mmf1.0

As for direct comparisons, the 50mmf1.8 is sharper than my 24mmf1.4L, my Tokina 28-80 ATX and my 70-200f4L for example, that's impressive!

Trying to judge the optical performance of the 50mm f1.8 and f1.4 is like trying to split hairs.

"Well... now that the 50/1.8 is a superb lens, I wonder how we should qualify the 50/1.4 lens, which we know has better resolution and contrast... superber? "

It does? News to me. The only optical advantages that I'm aware of are ; slightly better out of focus blurr (the f1.4 has an extra blade or two) and of course the slight advantage it has in low light. Certainly nothing to get too excited about. The 50mmf1.8 will hold it's own against any of Canon's other lenses, quite amazing considering it's price!

Oh, while many of Lecia's lenses are superb (albet at a price), one should be aware that some of the advantge of the rangefinder glass is lost on an SLR. The reason for this is that the closer the lens is to the film (or sensor) the better the result (please don't ask me to explain why). The design of an SLR, with it's mirror pushes the lens out away from the film or sensor. For fun try an old Canonet QL17 rangefinder, be prepared to be shocked by the sharpness.

"I've read elsewhere that at around 12.8 megapixels sensors start outresolving Canon's fine middle of the line glass, exposing "defects" in their design. Specifically the 50mm F1.4 and the 85 F 1.8, for example, both of which I own. "

Those are probably two of the finest EF lenses you can get your hands on. I have the 50mmf1.8, which at only 70 quid is one of the finest lenses I have. I also have an EF100f2 which is also superb. I shoot film, and as digital is only now getting up to around film resolution your statement doesn't make sense.

I just wish my 24mmf1.4L performed as well as my 50mmf1.8! But some lenses are easier to manufactuer than others.

Always buy the best glass you can to suit your needs. Nor does more expensive automatically mean better. For example Canon's EF35f2 and 50mmf1.8 are superb lenses for not a lot of money. Their basic portrait lenses the 85f1.8 and 100f2 are also superb. Whether you shoot film or digital it's the glass that really counts, whatever the sensor or film being used.

"How large an issue is this?"

In short it's not an issue at all, nothing has changed when it comes to selecting lenses.

I got a midge in my EOS30v last weekend. It got in under the LCD display, and bounced about in there for about a day. So now I have a dead midge somewhere inside my camera. Oh well.

I've soaked my cameras a number of times, both my T90 and my EOS30 to the point they would no longer function. They are usually OK after a good dry out. Though my old EOS33 is dead, but I've no way of knowing if it was killed by water, but it probably didn't help.

I find in the rain it's usually the focus on the lens that goes first. Also remember even if you have sealed lenses, there is no seal, as far as I am aware between the lens and the body. Rain always works it's way in there. Anyway then the LCD display will go dim (after you've stuck another lens on!)before the camera starts jamming.

My Tokina ATX 28-80 has intermittant auto-focus failure, which I suspect is from too many rainy sessions.

It is best avoided, but Canon gear can take a bit of rain if required, though it's at your own risk.

Anyway get a billingham bag (water proof) or carry bin liners in your pocket or normal camera bag. If the rain gets really nasty get the gear in the bin liners.

Oh and get your lens serviced.

"I need the camera in my hands and broken in by mid November"

If that's the case you will pay near the rrp. Either keep using what you have at the mo (you do currently have a camera?) or effectively draw 4 or 500 quid out the bank and set fire to it.

Don't forget you may have warranty issues if you buy outside the UK.

"Here is an article that can give your a better idea of how much dynamic range is available with a DSLR and the best way to achieve it. "

Dynamic range is quite different from exposure lattitude. There is no doubt that DSLR sensors offer good dynamic range, but that depends on you getting the exposure spot on, as DSLR sensors have very limited lattitiude (like slide film)

"You will likely get at least another stop or two over typical transparency film, from my experience (30+ years with slides, 3+ years with DSLRs). There's no question in my mind that I see much more shadow detail with digital images that with various transparency films I've used (Kodachromes, Velvia, Provia, etc.)."

A stop or two over slide film? Slide film is about +/- 3/4 a stop, anything over or under is pretty much in the bin.

When I say lattitude, I mean in exposure, how tollerant is the film (or sensor) to exposure, or exposure error.

For example I can correctly calculate the exposure for a given scene for standard 400asa neg film. I take the shot it's fine. I can go one stop under (800asa), it's not so nice but I can still get a result. I can go a stop over (200asa), it's just as good as the correct exposure, I can go to two stops over (100asa), I'm starting to loose ground again but I can still get a result. Go outside that and its' in the bin again. That's what lattitude means in practicable terms.

I've been told, and from what I've read the lattitude of DSLR sensors is about that of, or less,than slide film. Others here are saying (with raw files) they are getting a bit more, which is good to hear.

As for Ed's comments, when you are shooting things that are moving around fast, in and out of the light, lattitude helps a hell of a lot. But I agree that histrograms and seeing the picture on the LCD is way over rated.

Well I was just about ready to place an order for a 20D and a 17-40L, but I thought I better wait till the September photo shows are by with. Just as well I held off. But now I've probably got another few months to wait, probably the end of January, I hate forking out 100's of pounds when I don't have to.

I dithered and dithered with the 20D. I might have been happy with it, many are happy with it, but some have not been that keen on the crop factor. As I want to keep shooting film as well, the crop bothered me.

I figure if the 5D is good, I'll be happy to ingnore the next few DSLR realeases from Canon. After all I bought 2 30's in 2002. One I'm still using, the other got replaced by 30v from the Canon e-bay shop when one of the 30's died recently. I've not been tempted by 3's or 1v's, so the 5D should do me for a good few years. After it's the glass that more important, and of course what you do with the stuff.

Roll on January, or if the price drops under 2 grand quickly I'll jump in before then. (2 grand I can't belive I'm about to spend that on a camera, but I will)

I just hope I can learn quickly how to use the darn thing. Now that does worry me. Makes me want to run and hide in the darkroom.

Cheers,

Gareth.

"It's not going to drop that fast."

Who knows. If it falls at the same rate as the 20D, then this time next year it will retail for about 1750. It's also difficult to know what demand will be like, it's a lot of cash. Will people stay with 20D's or buy a 20D? Also it's competing for attention with the 1dmk2, which is interesting.

Note that the price of the 1dmk2 has fallen harder than that of the 20D.

"+/- .75 is really the most I want to say, but I really think, for serious consideration, you'd be better to listen if anyone who measures would chime in."

Cheers Shawn. So it's similar rather than less than slide film with Raw. That's certainly a lot tighter than any neg film. Gives me an idea of where I'm headed.

WT,

Perhaps. But the mases are keen, us usual, to get hooked. I've been holding out for a few years now. This should be a camera I'll be happy to still be using in 5 years time (if I ain't broke it by then).

I need it for the quick result, nothing else, and hopefully it might even pay for itself.

Oh does anybody know what Canon service centres charge for a sensor clean (yes I know about the DIY kits), and do they do while you wait?

"I find I get about the same latitude with a Canon DSLR as I would 'in general' shooting a normal emulsion, actually somewhat less than film."

You've lost me there Shawn. Can I expect +/- 1/2 stop or 1 stop, 1.5 stops, with raw?

The histogram is of limited use to me. And that's where the only niggle I can see so far with the D5 lies, 3fps, it's a bit slow for bracketing, but I guess will have to do.

"I used to shoot slide also but the DSLR has much more lattitude, if you shoot RAW that is. Plus the histogram means you can correct any errors and try again."

So how much lattitude will I get with this thing? I intend to shoot RAW (assuming I can figure out what to do with RAW files!) and maybe Jpeg at the same time.

As for histograms, sure they are handy, but if the subject has walked off, or the scene has changed, you can't try again. Got to get it right, first time, every time, lattitude is a big help.

Of course the other camera(s) (EOS30's) will be loaded with tri-x.

"I used to shoot slide also but the DSLR has much more lattitude, if you shoot RAW that is. Plus the histogram means you can correct any errors and try again."

So how much lattitude will I get with this thing? I intend to shoot RAW (assuming I can figure out what to do with RAW files!) and maybe Jpeg at the same time.

As for histograms, sure they are handy, but if the subject has walked off, or the scene has changed, you can't try again. Got to get it right, first time, every time, lattitude is a big help.

Of course the other camera(s) (EOS30's) will be loaded with tri-x.

Should be 1800 in the new year or shortly afterwards.

My thinking is a D20 (900 quid) plus a 17-40L (480 quid) is just about 1400 quid. If the D5 is availble soon for 1800 quid, well as somebody who has yet to try digital, that's the one I'm going to buy.

Ben, Jacobs are quoting the same price as Park Camera. 2,539.99, unless you can get out of the VAT.

Jacobs are stating that that is their price. Park Camera, have published the rrp, but have not announced their selling price.

There is a big difference between rrp and the real selling price, particulary if you shop around.

From what I can see there is not much difference between DSLR prices in the UK and the US. There is though, a big difference in film camera and lens prices however.

Oh the rrp for the EOS 1d mk2 is 3599.99, Park sell it for 2259.00 Take some comfort in that.

If you want one right away, you will pay near the rrp. If you can hang back for a few months you will get it a lot lot cheaper.

If you teach me how to use the darn thing..............

It'll be my first digital camera. Probably won't buy it till January as the price should have slipped a few hundred quid by then.

Tri-x? Just dev it in some rodinal.

"Oops, when I aid 'who shoots film', it was a joke (LOL) and it was merely because the poster didn't seem to realize my 'bitch' wasn't with film vs. digital as methods of expression, but merely I was speaking of the costs involved."

I don't see the problem. Either you fork out for the EOS5D, or pick up an EOS3 or a 30 for buttons, with a ability to produce similar, the same or better results.

Why all the moaning. We really never have had it so good, and be patient as it's going to get even better.

Or you could also look out for seconhand 1ds's (the mk 1?) they should be dropping like a stone soon.

Frankly for 2x3 foot prints, you'd maybe be better sticking with film and investing in a Mamiya 67. Stop fretting about what you say you can't afford and either work with what you have or can afford.

Oh tech pan is discontinued I think.

ps, just to really peeve you off (please forgive me), I'll be buying a EOS5D soon! Sorry Shawn.

Best wishes,

Gareth

I shoot film.

No need to worry about exposure? The average DSLR sensor has less lattitude than slide film! That's one down side of DSLR's for me.

Nor can DSLR's really touch the look of traditonal b&w photography. Not that I want to start another boring film v digital debate.

At the end of the day I started taking pictures with a Praktica MTL. I never thought back then that I'd be playing with such high quality gear today. I never thought film and paper would be so cheap. We've never had it so good!

As for the Eos5, it looks like the DSLR I've been waiting for.

Leszek,

I can't see film ever being phased out. Overall choice will be reduced, and film will be seen as 'the' alternative photographic process. Not to mention what happens when 'digital' photography is enevitably replaced by video stills in ten to thirty years?

Indeed technology is important. I totally agree with you. Cameras after all don't take photographs, only people can do that.