lucas_griego

If the pixelization in the POW is as bad as your putting forth it'd be most apparent in the contrasty edges. But it ain't there. The main texture you see on the central 'ice mushroom' is condensated water - if you consider the enviroment/subject it's pretty simple highschool physics really.

DM,

Congrats on the photo. One could almost be fooled into thinking it was some massive ice-berg. That translucent quality of water ice is well captured here.

 

Paul Greenwood,

You're on about pixelation. Even after viewing the large version - I don't see any of that. Are you mistaking water droplets on the centered mushroom shaped piece of ice for pixelation? Much like the condensation on a beer bottle. Other than the standard pixelation that comes with uploading images for the net - I don't find such massive pixelation you're on about. Not even on the large viewing size. However if you have downloaded the image and then zoomed in via Pshop. LOL - then yes you will get your pixelation.

 

Sorry - but didn't find the Wallmart image you were talking about.

 

Also having shot with the same lens (and yes, also... z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z- over two thousand images as well - z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z) I am also well aware of it qualities and I think the image shows that DM had some kind of idea how to use the lense.lol.

 

As for DOF on the mushroom piece of ice... you say it's lacking?!

It sharp front to back - as much as can be seen on an internet upload at the large viewing size. How do ya figure?

If you've ever been to this area - or any similar area where there is a huge amount of silted water running out to a different body of water - usually a river emptying into a sea (think Pearl River Delta area)then you'll know that much of what's going on in this shot is very normal.

 

Take a look at many arial photos of sites like this and you will see many of shots that require you to do a double-take because they look so unnatural. Having just come back from a very similar area with very similar lighting (Hainan Island-China) I can attest to the light playing tricks. Several shots for a client were refused because although they were 100% natural (meaning in camera only with no digital manipulation) the client just couldn't believe/didn't feel they looked 'natural' enough to be believable. Hilarious. Thank God I also shot some more mundane stuff as well. So most of what you describe as beig 'manipulated' doesn't strike me as so - having shot in many of these areas I know just how 'unreal' they can look. That's exactly the exquistie beauty of them!

 

As for the shadows of the rear figure being shorter than the one at the front of the boat... sure... he's sitting in the center of the boat and she is off slightly to the right. Thus - the shorter shadow. As well there could be a host of other reasons. Light and shadow are more dynamic and fickle than what we learned in grade school physics. LOL - if it wasn't we all be the best photographers possible without all the blood, sweat and tears and the thousands of botched shots.

 

As for the eddies in the water from her ores - yes they would stay for quite a while - probably due to the colloidal suspension/dispersion qualities of silt in sea water and the rate of outflow from the river into the sea rather than her somehow rowing fast as put forth by you as an attempt to shore up your 'manipulated' accusation.

 

Give the armchair Photoshop detective work a rest and get out a bit more or just enjoy the beautiful shot. ;)

Cuong Tran,

Beautiful shot. The kind of shot that is very very difficult to get. It's usually hard to get all the factors to work together for a shot like this. Lighting, timing, being there, having 'vision' enough to 'see' the shot.

 

Hilarious what some people go on about the regret they would have if they got this shot and did not bracket or manipulate. LOL - who are they kiddin'?! Gotta get a shot this good first mate!

A nice catch. Congratulation on the POW. I live in Hong Kong and couldn't quite place what was peculiar about the image until I relized it was taken long before I got here.

 

These days you'd be hard pressed to find a letter writer on the street. Even in Mongkok where I live. There are still many business's like this around - in fact just today I shot guys rewiring these massive turbines and there shop was so tiny and narrow they just had this massive turbine on the sidewalk while they worked on it. Classic Hong Kong.

 

Just to add to Minfei Gan's information..

 

When Hong Kong was full of factories there were thousands of people that came from the mainland to work in them. Both legal and illegal. Many of these people came from poverty that most people can only imagine. For many came when they were kids and had little or no education so many could not read or write Chinese - or at least very little. As time went on this dificulty was compounded by the differences between written Cantonese and it's traditional characters prevalent in Hong Kong and the Mandarin from the mainland China with it's simplified characters . They worked as hard as one could imagine under dangerous conditions. In Hong Kong it's not too hard to find old women who are missing fingers - having lost them in factory accidents - primarily with placstics injection molding machines or in textile mills.

 

One of the 'tea ladies' at an office where I worked was like this - but as Chinese are known to do they don't grouse around they just get on with life. I helped her carry groceries from the market in Tin Wan most days - much to amusement of all her elderly Chinese friends - though she hardly need my help as she was physcially stronger than most men I know. She had 3 sons that all went on to become Hong Kong police officers. She was very proud of that. She never let me waste so much as a single drop of tea in all the years I worked with her.

 

The people from this generation are really survivors in every sense of the word. This is why many of the older people listen to the radio all the time. Is there a fruit vendors stall or Dap Pai Dong (Chinese style coffee/tea stall on the street) in Hong Kong that doesn't have a little single speaker transistor? I doubt it. For years it's been there only way to stay informed as they couldn't read or write - or if they did it was very little. Hence, the need for letter writers. Sadly, many never made it back to China and many lost all contact with relatives. This is often why you see old people in Hong Kong that are 90 and still work hualing scrap and cardboard everyday. They've got no one to take care of them and social welfare in Hong Kong is very little. So again they just get on with living and surviving.

 

But I digress... even after living in Hong Kong all these years your shot still resonates with me. Congrats.

Terje,

Good shot. Having the prescence of mind to compose this on the fly is easier said than done. Kudos to you.

 

For those of you on about Chameleons. There are more than just the one kind of Chameleon commonly known in the west. So no - not all chameleons are the horned variety. I suspet that a great many of you have been thrown off by the cracked sandy 'desert' like floor they're on. But there are many more varieties than what you on the animal channel.

 

As for the digital v. film debate. - Give it a rest already. All of you whining about digital and holding film up as the holy grail.. get a grip.

 

What's more - you don't have any way of knowing during the course of any given day how many images are made with film or digital - and in this day and age the chances are it's digital edging out film in just about all media that you scan during the day.

 

A classic case of can't see the forest for the trees.

 

It's makes a rat's ass difference what an image was made with - it's the impact and the emotional response that a said image invokes that is important. It's the craftsmanship not the tools.

"...just goes to prove that nature can produce far more wonders than the human imagination and any Photoshop manipulation ever will."

 

Human imagination is something natural - it's not made by machines even though the manifestation of that imagination might be represented as a product of unnatural machinery - though even this is debateable as all machinery is subject to the laws of physics.

 

If this scene happened and there was no one around to take a photograph to pass it on to show others then it wouldn't matter to humans because they wouldn't even be aware of it.

 

Humans are always trying so hard to seperate themselves from the animal kingdom which they're part of. Human are animals and imagination is natural to humans.

lol.

Milwaukee... whoda thunk?!

Very interesting image here. A really stunning mix of shapes and images here. All kinds of subtext to this image. IMHO one of the best POW's in quite some time. Class shot you've got here Tim.

As far as I am aware there has never been any concrete evidence that the onset of Parkinsons disease for Ali was a direct result of his boxing. There are literally thousands of boxers that never end up with Parkinsons, Alzheimer's or dimentia pugilistica (boxers syndrome). There are many other factors as (APOE 4 etc.) that contribute to a higher risk of becoming 'punch drunk'. Many of the 'old school' trainers coached in a style of defense (and often offense) where absorbing punches to the head was simply an unquestioned part of the game. Some of that has changed as more medical data has filtered down. Much of it comes down to talent - one has to be able to think and box in order to be a successful boxer. Boxing is not the only sport where it occurs - others such as football (soccer in the US) and American rules football get missed by the media as they are considered more politically correct at the moment. I suspect this may have something to do with the amount of revenue they generate as mainstream sports. Other 'combat sports' like Muay Thai have far fewer instances of 'boxers syndrome' as there are many more legal targets than are allowed in boxing. Diesel Noi the legendary Muay Thai champion fought mostly in the 80's when knee's to the groin were still a completely legal target.

 

In boxing positive changes have been the use and the endorsement of the WIPPS Jaw Joint Protector. Unlike traditional mouth guards, the Jaw-Joint Protector moves the jaw down and slightly forward, locking it in place. In this position, the impact of collision is absorbed by the protector and dispersed from, rather than directed to, the vulnerable jaw joint.

 

Endorsed by the National Dental Association, World Boxing Association and Golden Gloves of America Inc., this mouth guard is expected to become a standard for sports safety within the next few years.

 

 

 

Alex Thompson -

 

Sounds like a serious case of sour grapes. I knew eventually someone would pull out the 'capture' v.s. 'photography' chestnut. The image has obviously had a huge impact on many people - whether it was done in a digital darkroom or a wet darkroom is largley irrelevant to that end. I don't think it is 'compositionally average' - not given the constraints of the environment.

Your uniformed missive shows that have never spent much time in or around the ring. Boxing is a sport whose integrity depends on sportsmanship, artistry and discipline. Whether or not boxing fits into a neat little PC category for you to be able to deal with is a seperate issue from whether or not this shot works.

 

It works well in black and white for the many reasons stated above - your welcome to scan up the thread and take a look for yourself. As for ill informed comments on something you seem to know very little about save it for some other place.

Tomm,

Thanks for the info on the shot and the environment. Too funny about the smoke - my how times have changed. Here is Asia smoking is generally still allowed everywhere. The fights are no exception, in fact in Hong Kong, China, Korea and Thailand it's the norm. Only more prevalent is the betting that goes on at a frenzied pace. The fights in Japan (K-1 and Shooto formats) are amazingly orderly and well mannered - at least out of the ring.

 

Surprisingly the officials and the refs here don't mind if you get close or and elbow in the ring during the match. I have several times cleaned blood spots off my lense and elbows when shooting ringside at several Muay Thai bouts. Sometimes it can't be avoided.

 

I too agree with the colors issue in many sports shot as they are hardly ever subtle and usually are garrish. You solved the issue quite effectively.

Tomm,

This is in my opinion the best shot ever sent up for POW. It has the whole 'Stag night at Sharky's' feel too it.

 

The 'no-flash' rule for photographers at the ringside means you've got to be a little more on it. And you managed it well here. You've managed to really capture what boxing is all about. heh - boxers train like animals day in day out - lungs are as equally important as fists. Any of them that are serious don't smoke - and then they go head-to-head at venues that are so thick with smoke from all the punters that you can barely see the other side of the ring.

Boxing is still the 'sweetest science'. And your shot does it justice.

Great shot Ken. This kind of a shot is not always very apparent - or at least I seem to miss them. Good capture!

Very nice shot. Well executed portrait work.

 

And dismiss the comment by Steve W. it shows just what an ass he is. : )

Abigail,

Nice capture here. Love the relaxed mood you happened to get in these guys. I think it could be recropped so it wasn't so dead symetrical. It's make the composition a bit more dynamic. But I disagree with the previous posters comment on the shadows. They help to pop out the characters out of the background. And adds depth to the shot. I will have to check out the rest of your folders. Thanks for posting this. : )

"In the end, if an image is badly crafted it will be hard to sell, and the photographer will learn a lesson."

Which is exactly one of the reasons we have this forum here. Maybe a photographer can get feedback before he misses a sale due to something that he could have fixed. That's the beauty of peer review.

The average joe buying a print for their wall probably wouldn't pick up on the less than stellar Photoshopwork on what is a really bang-up image. The more discerning print buyer/photo collectors that some sell to and the photo editors and art directors that are my clients definitely would - so it's valid perspective to point out what I see as shortcomings with the Photoshop work.

So I think you will agree that what you call 'nitpicks' and many of us here call 'constructive critiques' are definitely in the best interest of the photographer.

I never meant to imply there is only one way to look at photographs. But attention to detail, quality and craftsmanship definitely rank right up there the list of parameters to watch for when shooting, editing and presenting photographs.

Good shooting to you as well!

>>As for digital editing - I couldn't care less - I'm not interested in 'photography', just great images, no matter how they were created and edited!<<

 

LOL!

In that case there are a ton of graphics sites, 3D modelling sites and illustration sites on the web that will knock your socks right off.

 

Point being - Photo.net is about photos. And it does matter how and to what level of expertise they were retouched/edited.

The problem I have with the Pshop work on this shot is not that the photographers shadow has been Pshopped out. He stated that there had been minor retouching. Fair enough.

 

I just wish it had been done a bit more deftly. When viewed on large it becomes obvious the rubber stamp tool was used. The grain and the directional streaking is lost - so it kinda shouts Pshop down in that region. This does not ad to the photograph. In a give or take between leaving in a photographers shadow and obvious rubber stamping blur - I'd have to go with leaving in the photographers shadow.

 

All of which could be easily fixed in Pshop to the advantage of the shot. Which - I really like.

Good shot. Lots of impact here. I'd definitely go back to the original scan though and employ a more careful use of the rubber stamp tool in Pshop. It can be done.. on this shot once it's pointed out (or those with experience with Pshop retouching) it becomes a real pain to look past. I'd have probaby gone for removing the shadow as well too - but this shot deserves just a bit more care.

 

I'd prefer just a bit more breathing room for the horses as well. I know.. I know... not always possible.

Nestor,

I like the action in this shot. Classic. I too would have preferred a bit more breathing room on top. The whole toreador would have been great. The colors are working for me as well.

Cedar,

Liked this shot a lot. Something about the curious yet independant and slightly standoffish nature of these two girls.. the bigger one in the front is interesting as well. Nice one. : )

Clever shot.

Well composed with nice lines and the exposure is on.

Lukar has really used perspective and the curved walls of the gallery space to

his advantage here. The sweeping curve and the diminishing size of the

frames as they move away from/towards us really serve to pull the viewer into

this shot.

 

It's exactly this kind of shot that is so easy to miss or 'not see' when your

standing there. Lukar got it though. Nice one. : )

 

Someone mentioned the shadow looking 'airbrushed'.

 

Give it a rest already - stop the Photoshop paranoia.

nice one.. I'd be happy to call it mine... those who think it looks staged need to get out and shoot more - arm chair street photography is one thing.. street photography is another animal all together.

 

congrats on POW Mr. Malcolmson.

Darrin,

Great shot.

 

Crop. Don't crop. Shoot it again in all possible variations to please every one here... etc. etc. ad infinitum...

 

ha ha.. I prefer to just enjoy what you've captured here.

 

By the way "In an Antique Land" is another great read by Amitov Ghosh

and if "Glass Palace" (Gone with the Wind of Burma) was written before you were born.. then you must be damn young. :-)

 

Congrats on POW and a beautiful shot.