thomas_diekwisch1

I have both as well. I can't see any noticable difference between them. To me, they are both top-notch lenses, as good as medium format ever gets. Both focus down to 1.4 meter and both use floating elements which definitely places them above the CZ Sonnars of the same focal lengths at 1:10 type situations such as portraits. But note - they are really sharp. Not always what you would want for portraits.

 

The photodo test finds that the Exakta mount version is slightly below the Rollei version. Other tests of Exakta lenses show evidence that the Schneider Tele-Xenar is far above the other lenses from Eastern Europe.

 

So, be assured that you have gotten one of the best lenses out there, of any brand and of any time.

Cliff has a very good point. I remember that I had bought in the mid-80ies two Rollei HFT lenses, one a 80mm Planar, another a 250mm Sonnar. Both were not very good and made me wonder why I had moved up to medium format. A 120mm f5.6 Zeiss S-Planar however made up for it, and a Schneider Variogon as well. Needless to say, I sold the Planar and the Sonnar. Actually I even sold the Variogon, but not because of sharpness, but because it was such a brute. Later I bought a 50mm Rollei Distagon and a 150mm Sonnar for the SL66E which were both top quality. The moral: it wasn't Rollei or Zeiss or Schneider or the Japanese. In my case, I had just been unfortunate to have bought two bad-day Rollei lenses in a row.

Yes. Good. No, better, outstanding. As good or better than fixed lenses. I had the 140-280 Schneider for the Rolleiflex. Great lens... but... TOO HEAVY. Eventually I sold it. It's a decent portrait lens, at least, but be pre-warned, it is very sharp. It is probably better than you were hoping for...

Agree with Jeff.

 

The photodo site is great. They sat down and did uniform tests of a large number of lenses. With the obvious flaws that their and any other test system has. Think about Kornelius Fleischer's tests where he got his film developed in a nearby grocery market's automatic processor. Nothing against grocery markets, by the way...

 

Anyway, the result is that there is a lot of manufacturer hype out there, that we all know of (see the recent H1 Zeiss/Fuji debates).

 

In my eyes, and please forgive my interpretation, these and many other tests (Mamiya recently published a comparison between their 645 and the 645 Zeiss lenses) show that the lenses of the big manufacturers are pretty much on the same level. The big lesson is that Zoom lenses in general are not so good as fixed lenses, but beyond, there are very few general statements that hold up.

 

Back to Jeff. Once you know they are all very similar take the one you like most and shoot...

Serge - it's here http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=003rjh

Nice post, Jeffrey. LF photography and music are linked in that they are two different types of artistic expression. I have been playing piano for 30 years, given concerts, composed music etc.. I have dabbled in photography for about the same time. During my first ten years in 35mm as editor and photographer for a local newspaper. In my recent ten years mostly medium and large format. About ten years ago, I bought a used Linhof, and now it's the perfection of 4x5 prints that makes me continue. In my 20ies, music was more important. Right now, it is photography. I still listen a lot to classical music though.

 

I guess in all cases it is some sort of expression. When I started photography, I was very interested in people. Now I am more interested in structures and nature. With music it's about sounds. Experiencing the multitude of sounds. It's a sensual exploration of our world.

 

Among the many who succeeded in both were Godowsky and Mannes, the inventors of the Kodachrome film. O.k, they worked in 35mm, but it's on a similar level. Besides being photographers and musicians, they were chemists. Leopold Godowsky was an accomplished professional violinist who played with many orchestras. Leopold Mannes was a professional pianist. It is well known that they timed the photochemical reactions by playing movements of Beethoven sonatas that matched the developing times. Godowsky's father, by the way, was an accomplished pianist as well. His studies on Chopin's Etudes have reached a notorious reputation for technical difficulty and artistic refinement. A recent highly-acclaimed CD issue (Marc-Andre Hamlin as a pianist) has brought them to life once more.

One important aspect that has been left out in this discussion so far is the outstanding handholdability of the twin-lens reflexes which makes them superior for many practical applications in comparison to medium format SLRs. The second aspect is the superior focussability, especially in comparison to medium format rangefinders. So, even after all these decades, rangefinders are a sane and rational alternative. Can't wait for the new Tele-Rolleiflex with 150mm Schneider and built-in light meter to come out. Which probably won't be for those who are on a budget. I was just writing this to Daniel to re-assure him that both the Autocord and the Mamiya are a reasonable choice, even in this day and age. Most of the posters above have mentioned the goods and bads. The Minolta is more lightweight and practical, but the Mamiya with its interchangeable lenses is definitely an alternative in the days of major internet auctionhouses :) providing ample accessories.

Here is some more info for those of you in the market for the AF and lenses. As many of you know by now, the body is available at a price of about $3,700.- from a number of sources. I thought that was quite reasonable considering the new features introduced with this camera. The prices of the new lenses however came as a surprise. The new Tele-Xenar 2.8/180AF will be around $4,500.- and the new Variogon 4.8/60-140AF around $4,700.-. Only the Xenotar 2.8/80mm AF (available in spring 2003) will be in the affordable range around $1,900.-. BTW, these are pretty much low-end prices. So, there is a hefty price associated with the luxury of 6x6 AF. Makes you really think whether you won't be better off with your own hands. Hard to resist the 180 though...

I'd agree in that in terms of MF technology and quality the 6008i is pretty much it. Like any other system it has a couple of weak spots. The T/S issue is one of them. The 55mm Super-Angulon T/S is a dream lens but really up there in terms of price, even though you can get it used for half of the price quite often. For my own use, the 55mm is usually not wide enough. You may want to get another body and a 45mm T/S lens or a Horseman 612 or a monorail camera for these application. The other weak spot is the lack of fast telephoto lenses above 300mm. Lastly, there are the service issues discussed at length. But that's pretty much it. Hard to find another system that even compares.

I just got one of their e-mails and I think it's just rude. There is so much junk there you have to get through every day. It's just very disappointing that somebody is using this really wonderful forum as a venue. I don't think there are any excuses, especially after so many members expressed their dissent. When Tuan and others originally set up this forum on another server, there was just so much idealism and sharing spirit. Together with photo.net, Fine Art Photo Supply takes a lot away from the free spirit on which the large format forum was originally based.

The H1 enterprise will be quite interesting to watch. There have been a number of comparable ventures, which are at least interesting to mention at this point.

 

One was the Leitz/Minolta collaboration of the 80ies with cameras such as the Minolta XE-1, the Leica R3, and some Minolta lenses for Leica such as the Zoom, the 800mm, the Fisheye and the 24mm as far as I remember. There also was the Leitz/Minolta CLE with Leica Bayonet - a forerunner of the Konicas and Voigtlaenders of today. Overall, the collaboration wasn't a winner. The Leica customers didn't appreciate the Japanese lenses at that time and the Minolta customers thought the CLE was too expensive, even though it might have been the best rangefinder camera of all times.

 

Another example was the Rollei/Singapore enterprise also from the beginning of the 80ies. Rollei aimed to manufacture inexpensive 35mm cameras in Singapore using the Rollei label. As many of you know, the venture didn't survive. Customers didn't want to see the Singapore label. The Singapore products were inferior to the Japanese competition at that time and the overall concept came too late. Rollei went bankrupt as a consequence.

 

More recent joint ventures have been more successful. The Contax is obviously a Yashica with Carl Zeiss lenses made in Japan. Independent tests demonstrate that Mamiya lenses are clearly better, or at least on the same level as the Zeiss lenses. Still, customers are willing to pay double just for the Zeiss and Contax name.

 

Another quite successful example is the Voigtlaender brand in the hands of Cosina's Kobayashi. Using one of the most prestigious German brands as a label as well as other lens names from this manufacturer such as Heliar, Skopar, Lanthar, Cosina has been able to surround itself with an aura similar to that of Leica. The lenses aren't too bad. The camera quality has been lousy in the past, but slightly improved recently. Cosina was able to gain name and perceived quality recognition by adapting one of the famous European brand names.

 

The Hasselblad H1 venture will be truly interesting to watch. The public is more open-minded today and will less disregard a product just on the basis of mixed origins. There have been too many successful examples for that. One of the more successful ones is of course Hasselblad's very own Xpan. Another issue that few have mentioned so far is Fuji's longstanding commitment to unique and high quality professional photographic and digital products. The quality of Fuji lenses is simply outstanding. Both companies are true leaders in their field.

 

One of the true competitions will be the one with the Rollei 6008AF. As a company, Rollei offers two decades of experience with electronic and motorized medium format cameras and an exquisite extraordinary lens palette, both from Schneider and Zeiss in Germany. Here on the medium format digest we have all seen Rollei fail with their early electronic cameras, and most of us will probably agree that today, Rollei is offering top-notch quality products. Apparently, the new Rollei AF lenses are a joy to use and just snap into focus, something the Contax/Mamiya/Pentax 645s still have to learn. I haven't tested the H1, so that remains to be seen. In addition, Rollei has to offer a true 6x6 square and a really mature system with hundreds of accessories, not just a few lenses as the H1.

Go for it. Hard to beat.

Lenses for the 6008i are a favorite subject on the web. You'll find that many prefer the following three Schneiders for good reasons: 3.5/40mm Super-Angulon, 4.0/90mm APO-Symmar, 2.8/180mm Tele-Xenar. The next one in this line-up usually is the 300mm APO.

Part of it probably was euphoria about a new creative alternative to the classic 50/80/150 set-up with a sensible high-quality combination. In comparison to the classic set, the 40 Schneider is more compact, lightweight, convenient, faster, and more extreme in terms of angle. The 90 is an ultra-sharp, ultra-contrast Macro. Even though the lens is not small, it is relatively lightweight. The 180mm is the fast alternative to the classic 150. Interestingly, its enormous weight allows for good handholdability. The fast speed provides an extremely bright viewfinder image. In combination with the 6008i it's a pleasure to use. Among them, the 90 easily is the best lens, followed by the 40 and then the 180. All of them are very good though. The perspectives are a little bit more extreme than the classic set. The 40/90/180 combination is also more versatile with its hight speed and macro capability. This was the first set of lenses I got myself and I still believe that it was a great choice. The two disadvantages are weight (especially for the 180) and cost. If weight and cost don't matter, it's more of a character question. The Schneider set has more of the extremes while the classic 50/80/150 is more conservatives. The EL lenses are certainly on the same level as the rest of the Zeiss glass, with the exception of the 50. But they are all great lenses.

 

Lastly, I do believe the Hongkong suppliers are quite reliable, if you follow the feedback left on the web. But Robert White has an outstanding team that's hard to beat in terms of service.

I don't have any of these problems with my 30mm Fisheye Distagon using a Rolleiflex SL66E. Tack sharp. Just look at the MTFs. Like any of the others. At least for practical photography. Easy to hand-hold because of the short focal length. Easy to focus because of the huge depth of field. And great effect, particularly using the square format. I am not sure what's the matter with yours.

The 6008i with EL lenses is a smart choice. They are as good as the PQ lenses. Another option to save money is the 6001 which I believe is one of the most underrated cameras here. With its flash metering it's essentially a 503 of our times, with motor drive and userfriendly magazines. This is if you don't need the built-in light meter.

 

In terms of quality, the Rollei system has grown up and is as good as or better than the competition. You'll also be sure to invest into a system with future, since Rollei has recovered and in fact is in better condition than some of its competitors. Lastly, the system will be compatible with the AF system that is now being introduced.

Interestingly though, Rollei has been bought back by its employees - reminds me of Harley. Even more interesting, at least in light of this debate, Hasselblad is currently going through a major financial struggle and I believe is looking for buyers - Rollei has been one of them (rumors). This might explain many of Hasselblad's recent actions. From my own point of view some of Hasselblad's move make a lot of sense. While there is a place for classic equipment and Hasselblad is doing a masterful job in terms of craftsmanship and PR, in the bigger picture Hasselblad has missed the boat for a while. Fuji on the other hand easily fits with Hasselblad's dedication for quality. Think about the Xpan. I am personally very imprssed with my GSW690 and just from people I am talking to the GX680 also has a very high standard. I think it all makes perfectly sense and honestly I wish it works out. In fact, the H1 is a great concept, if it wasn't that expensive...

Thirty-two.

Voila! After five years of rumors and disclaimers the rabbits finally came out of the box - at least at photokina. Both the wide and the tele... I guess that saves the subscription list...

Probably one of these stupid: which equipment is better questions.

But I am thinking back and forth and thought maybe somebody here can

offer advice. I have an old Kardan Color with all the accessories,

including several lenses on Kardan boards, backs, and "Winkelspiegel"

(just love that word). It's the simple model which doesn't allow

extension of the monorail beyond 300mm. Now I want a longer base for

some lenses and at least some movements with numbers on the holmes.

The geared movements of the Horseman and the X-shaped rail appear

attractive, but I have never used a Horseman LF. Also, do my Linhof

Kardan boards fit on the Horseman? Does anybody know that?

Alternatively, I'd have complete trust in Linhof quality based on my

old one, and I have a number of accessories. I guess they'd be both

adaptable to digital use at some point? Anybody willing to offer

advice?

And all of them great, Godfrey, congratulations!

Something the others, especially Rollei, could learn from...

The lenses of choice would be a set of Schneider macro lenses dedicated for use with the Exakta 66. In the recent six years they have produced a set of four lenses for regular and macro photography in 28mm, 50mm, 135mm, and 180mm. I believe Schneider still makes these lenses, but they'd be special order. Enlarging lenses, adapted symmetrical large format lenses, or inverted normal lenses of course are less expensive alternatives.

Just out of curiosity - has anybody ever used/tested this monster?

How does it compare to the old and new 500 for example or any of the

mirror lenses? I know the MTFs are not that great. Does Zeiss have

any plans to replace it with an APO version? I know that the old

500mm Tele-Tessar from the 60ies was just o.k. while the new APO

version is excellent. Also the 1000mm mirror lenses are excellent,

apart from price and out-of-focus characteristics. So - who has it?

Anybody? And how is it really?

Very nice square compositions. It's an art on its own. I am not saying more or less difficult than rectangles, but it takes a special kind of seeing. You have mastered it. Congratulations.

Robert White comes first. 1st rate international experience. Better than anything in the U.S.. Ctrades.com is on the same level for Rollei stuff. B&H is usually good, but there have been exceptions, e.g. missing items and rude customer service with bad attitude.