thomas_diekwisch1

Depends on what kind of photography you prefer. IMHO, the 6008i is pretty much the best camera base out there. On the other hand, any SLR system with a standard lens asks the question: Why SLR? ...and then, of course, the Rollei gets expensive. But not more so than Hasselblad and not much more than the others.

Oh, and I forget to mention, the exposure control of the motorized Rolleis is way off, both in bright sunlight and in the mornings and evenings. You either need to compensate or use a handheld meter at all times. Pretty much all of them from SLX to 6008i. The meter I have in my SL66E and SE works better, even though they are from the same company using similar types of engineering.

Most things have been said already, but since I have both Rollei systems, I might still add my two cents.

 

I personally very much like the SL66 system for travel/landscape. The built-in bellows and the reverse mount make it a very universal system for shooting motifs at all distances. The built-in Scheimpflug correction shift is also useful from time to time, even though less than you might think. The backs are a problem indeed, but all of the systems have a weak spot. The good thing about the SL66 however is that once you have a system that works, it is pretty reliable. There is also a nice portfolio of lenses, including a 5.6/500mm Tele-Tessar, and you can adapt the Jena lenses, as somebody mentioned above. In fact, it's a good system to get really good lenses at a decent price. The folding finder allows for too much stray light. I recommend to use the magnification finder at all times. It's a marvelous mechanical system one can easily fall in love with.

 

The motorized Rolleis are something completely different. I have owned and sold both a SLX and a 6006 for almost nothing, both model 1s, since they were extremely unreliable. Maybe both model 2s are more reliable, but I have heard otherwise from dealers. I have no doubts that there may be some good ones out there, but I am not sure whether it's worth the risk.

 

I have the 6008i system with a bunch of Schneider lenses and a few Zeiss, and in terms of speed of handling, image quality, and fast lenses, the combination is hard to beat. Ideal for travel photography, but not necessarily landscapes since the speed won't provide much advantage. I found the 6008i system very reliable. In fact, I have hardly had any problems. There are some minor issues though. The magazines don't close as well if you carry them around. And the batteries are an issue. You are fine if you take several of them with you and have them loaded, but otherwise you need to have your loading apparatus with you all the time and find a plug at night to recharge them. Also, you need to have the equivalent adapters for the country you are in, otherwise you are screwed.

 

What's my recommendation? They are both fine. The 6008i system really pays of if you have the money and are willing to carry the fast lenses. I'd stay away from the 6006/SLX system. I haven't used the Bronica system at all. But I believe that the SL66 system is a great beginner's system for landscape/travel photography, provided you get a working back.

Yes. Yes. Yes. I'd definitely agree with this perspective. Kornelius offers unique contributions and insights that are of tremendous benefit to the Digest. I share Andrew's comment in that his input has a degree of enthusiasm that's way beyond mere company interests. It is rather, if I may say so, something like a company patriotism. One really feels how proud Kornelius is of his company.

 

And justly so. Which other company today has such a history to boast? And photographers benefiting from it. Innovative lens designs not only in the recent decade but rather more than 150 years into the past. It is probably accurate to assume that most lenses we are taking picture with today are probably Zeiss designs or copies thereof. Planar, Biogon, Sonnar, Tessar, Mirotar (both in Jena and in Oberkochen). The coating. The collaboration between Zeiss, Abbe, Schott, the social reform in Germany, the impact of the company as a role model for more than a century. I cannot help but have an enormous respect for the overall achievement of Carl Zeiss as a company. I appears as if Kornelius owns this tradition.

 

From another, practical perspective, I personally love the portfolio of extremely fast and extremely sharp Schneider lenses for my Rolleiflex 6000 system. Pretty much all of them. I admire the effort a much smaller company relatively recently invested into developing these tools for us, medium photographers. Whether I'd buy a Biogon? I'd rather prefer the 43mm Mamiya because of the format for this focal length. And there is definitely a huge price associated with buying into the Zeiss system.

 

But there is nobody from other companies joining in here in a fashion Kornelius does. I still remember encouraging a contribution from the Alpa owners which after that completely went out of hand. This has never been the case with Kornelius, and he is in this respect is a role model for everybody else. And then there are these PR masters from Rollei who promise to contribute and then never do. Yes, Kornelius provides the right balance. There are some however, who forget where he is coming from...

IMHO, the 300mm Schneider with 1.4 converter is an obvious first choice. You have at once high speed, top image quality, and a good representation of focal lengths, i.e. you have a top 4.0/300mm and a top 5.6/420mm. The 500mm is too slow IMHO. With the 2x converter you clearly loose on image quality. Once you have the 300mm with 1.4 converter, the 1000mm appears to be a reasonable next step. I don't have one though; it's huge and expensive. Medium format is not at its best with long focal lenghts. Pentax has some good longer lenses. I'd really wish Rollei had a Schneider 600mm/5.6 APO or something like that.

Thanks, Rob, that's what I meant to say... in one part of my contribution. In the other one I just want to state that I am quite happy with my 50 Distagon for the Rollei, and I am usually quite picky... If you ask me for an insider explanation, I can't give you any, but it has been my experience that there have been great variables between individual lenses, e.g. I once had a not so good 80 and a not so good 250 for my SLX.

 

On another note I perfectly agree with Q.G.'s second part of his contribution: Kornelius' input is much appreciated, seriously, full stop, no question about it. But it is also clear whom he works for, and that comes through in many of his contributions. I commented on that earlier as well.

 

Just to get the logic straight about the first part - I have just referenced quotes/data and compared them to my experience. I did not place any value judgement on their validity. Rob has helped here. The only interpretation I have to offer at this point is individual lens variability, but seriously, I don't know.

 

There is another reason why I like the 50 non-FLE. It is so small and compact. And with the Rollei you can turn it around and it makes a wonderful macro lens. Definitely one of my favorites. What else can you ask for?

Q.G., I am sorry, but you have mis-read my post. I am happy with mine. I also haven't done any comparisons myself since I don't have a newer version. I am just saying that as far as I remember, the FLE is not a non-FLE with FLE built in, but in fact a new design, which is, according to Kornelius as well as to MTFs, markedly better. Look up under Kornelius Fleischer. Anyway, I completely agree that the question is academic, at least for me, since I am happy with mine. Having said that though I might want to add the my 40mm Super-Angulon has an edge on it, but that's again an entirely different matter. But sorry again, Q.G., you have mis-read my contribution. I was just quoting others. And sorry, if my phrasing hasn't been clear.

Kornelius and others know better, but as far as I remember, the 50FLE is a much better lens. Apparently, the regular 50 was never one of the strong points of the system. Kornelius did some tests demonstrating that has been much improved in the re-calculated FLE version. Of course, the FLE is not the factor that improves the long distance performance, but rather the new calculation. BTW, I have the Rollei equivalent of the non-FLE version, and I must have gotten a good one, since it is normally much lamented that the Rollei non-FLE is even worse than the Zeiss/Hasselblad.

Guess it's not difficult to figure out in which category Jeff belongs... and then the rest of us...

Don't worry, Georges, there is still some predictability on photo.net. In fact, I was waiting for one of Jeff's Mamiya 7 images to appear and proof somehow that Zeiss or Pentax was clearly superior. All too obvious of course on your computer screen...

I feel Claus Peter and Mark have good points. I once was about to register for paypal, and then I saw the amount of personal info they wanted to know and so I didn't complete (or cancelled) the registration. As a consequence, paypal warned me that I could never ever again become a paypal member, even if I wanted to. Glad I didn't join.

 

Somebody once ran up fraudulent charges using my name on a more than obviously fictitious Direct Merchants account. God knows who really did that or who at a credit card company could overlook such a bogus address as was used in the collector's statement. Hard to believe it was anybody outside of the company itself since the address they used was so obviously wrong. Anyway, I was harrassed by collection agencies for years to come, insulted because of my national origin, there was no end. As a first reaction, I would have almost paid the 5K amount because of their threatening attacks. Then it took me months to find out how to protect and defend myself. I still remember it took me weeks to find the actual address for Direct Merchants (don't know whether they hid their address on purpose). I am sure it will be a nightmare and may include substantial legal costs to remove the thing from my record(s), considering the countless credit reporting agencies existing. At the end it was a matter of principle - the amount of time and energy that I lost because the issue was probably worth the 5K, and I even don't know whether the thing is over by now.

 

Once burned, I have become ... paranoid... or careful...

Great website, Myco. Great photography.

I just recently bought a model III GSW690 and have fallen in love with it. The 65mm EBC is equivalent to a 28mm lens in 35mm photography and pretty much my most frequently used lens. The confinement on one lens is limiting in one way and liberating in another. You do street photography, classical reportage. The 65mm lens is extraordinary sharp and the 6x9 negatives are a joy to look at. Because it's a rangefinder and because there is no mirror slap, you can easily use shutterspeeds in the 1/30 - 1/125 range. Which in some way compensates for the F5.6 aperture. There are these musings about if there was one camera to take which one and this could easily make it.

 

 

Recently, there was this thread of Hasselblad owners and their love for the square. I can see it in some ways. The square is great for standard or slight telephoto for easy cropping and for everything as a framework for composition. Our view with our eyes however is not square (in opposite to what one poster noted), but rather rectangular, since we have two eyes and our brain adds both images. 6x9 feels so much more harmonious.

 

There are some set-backs. One is the plastic feel. One wonders why

Fuji didn't add some metal to make it perfect. On the other hand, for $1,000.- you will take it places you wouldn't take other cameras.

Another is the cheapo shutter (which works fine though). A slightly better one though might even cause less vibration.

 

With a 100ASA 220 film it allows for 16 shots and superb quality. If there is less light Fuji's new 400F does the trick. An ideal tool for street photography.

 

However, if you check the photo.net threads, you'll find that it is no longer produced. What a pitty! One wonders why - looks like the ideal camera to me. I agree with previous posters: a slightly refined 6x9 Fuji rangefinder with interchangable lenses would have my vote and probably be a tough competition for the Mamiya 7II.

I have been looking at the same questions. Two other contenders apparently are the Imacon Flexframe 4040 and the jenoptik eyelike. Some are raving about the Kodak chip, others about the Philips. Apparently, the Kodak has had some problems (is that true?). Some say the Philipps is better because it eliminates color/structure artifacts (true/false?). Some backs have a built-in monitor, others require a labtop. Some are either single shot or scan, and other have both features. Any advice?

I was kind of suspicious already when I read Keith's initial posting that the discussion would go this direction...

I completely agree with Daniel. When you look at most of the images on this forum you'll find that they rarely illustrate the point made by the poster. Having said that I'd concede that most of the images are very nice indeed, even though they contribute little, apart from a few exceptions. Many of them would easily fit into the photonet image discussion section. I would suggest that presenters be more selective in posting images related to a point they are making.

 

My own relationship with the square is definitely love-hate. Out of a sense of frustration I went out and got a Fuji GSW "Texas-Leica" and a Horseman SW612P. Coming from a 35mm newspaper background and growing up with 28mm and 20mm wideangle lenses I finally had a fit with my 50mm and 40mm wide angle Rollei medium format shots. Cropping would do and would have done the job in most cases but the feel was just not the same. For some reason I don't have the same discontent with the square when I am using telephotos. Anyway, in the recent weeks I have been bending over my 6x9 and 6x12 "Texas"-size film strips with a grin on my face.

 

That doesn't mean that I don't like the square. In fact it presents the viewer with unique compositional challenges and advantages when it is well used. Then there are the countless possibilities of cropping, both for portraits and ... for wide angles. E.g. you have built-in shift without converging verticals if you align the center of the image with the horizon, keep the verticals straight and use the upper 60% of the final image.

 

Split personality? - you bet.

The 4x4s are a treat and definitely worth it. You need to be careful if you go above that (the trick with the glass mounts) since the projector will be vignetting at the edges. If that's o.k. it's feasible however. I have projected a few reduced 6x6 this way when I needed to project almost all the information of the 6x6. The vignetting is too strong though to make this a regular application.

Go for it! The 180mm monster alone is worth it. Get the 6008i, it's the only one with an interchangable back and exposure automation and thus justifies the 180. 6008i body runs for about 2K at Robert White. The bugs are worked out. FYI: I had the SLX and the 6006, both of them overpriced garbage. The 6008i is photographic Nirvana. Company service is soso however (lots of threads here). Haven't needed much though in spite of some heavy work-outs. And, most of the parts are extremely rugged and reliable. Don't forget that your Hassy will need some overhauls as well (that is if you use it).

The Schneider 90mm APO is a phantastic lens, both for infinity and macro. The lens does not have a floating element. It is rather a Symmar, meaning a symmetrical lens design rather independent from the focusing distance. It's in fact one of the blessings of the Rollei system to have imported Schneider's large format lens design for medium format SLRs. There are two outstanding representatives, the 90 and the 150 APO-Symmar. Relatively independent from the subject magnification, the Symmars in general prefer to be stopped down a few F-stops. In this respect the 90 APO-Symmar is no exception reaching its performance peak at F11. At F4 the performance is still very good however.

 

In opposite to Schneider's Symmars, the Zeiss Planars have an advantage in reaching a performance peak already after slightly stopping down. The disadvantage of the asymmetrical Planar design however is that it is rather more sensitive to the factor of magnification. E.g. the standard 2.8/80 Planar is relatively good at infinity, then looses in the close-up area, and improves again in Retrostellung, when it is actually quite decent. On the other hand, the weakness of the 4.0/120mm Makro-Planar at infinity is rather well known compared to its optimum performance at 1:10. Consequently, performance at 1:1 is also below optimum.

 

All of this is rather theoretical as you will find that both lenses are of professional quality. I once had a bad 80mm Planar for the SLX that I returned eventually. Another Rollei 80mm Planar that I have for the SL66E is quite good. Having said this I must admit that images shot with the 90 APO are of a class of its own. Detail rendition, scale of tones, but particularly edges have a crispness that is unparalleled and probably due to the APO design.

The numbers indicate approximate number of rolls of 120 film left at room temperature. I have found them to be fairly accurate.

I agree with Bill, Rollei has added another milestone to photo history. The first 6x6 autofocus. A remarkable achievement for such an embattled company. And another highlight in a long list: the 80 years history of the twin-lens, the SL66 as a feast of mechanical camera engineering, the compact 35, the extremely futuristic SLX with motordrive and automatic exposure via linear motors, the SL2000/3000 35mm SLRs with exchangable magazines, the improved 6008i with exchangable magazines and dual automation, and some more. I guess there is no other camera brand that can proud itself of such a history of technical innovations and achievements, of remarkably unique designs for photography, of utterly individual photographic tools. In my humble opinion, there is none like it. This company continues to fascinate and amaze me with its achievements in design and engineering. Some will prefer the box or the 8x10; in my own humble case I can say that I would not have shot many photographs without my Rolleis...

Congratulations, Thomas Weber, for such a fine system. I really appreciate your comments here on photo.net. In fact, I believe that most of the readers appreciate your comments. It is quite strange that you got thrown out while Kornelius Fleischer gets an award for his sometimes more than obvious Zeiss PR. Just to be sure though, both are more than appreciated, and it is rather a pitty that some others (e.g. Rollei) don't join in even if they promise to do so.

 

I have been a long standing admirer of your system and I am sure I'll get one once I have the cash together... In fact, I have been looking at the Badger Graphics $6,000.- deal already. BTW, the comparable Horseman system, both the 6x9 and the 6x12 system are almost in the same range but seem to offer less shift capability. After much comparing back and forth, the ALPA is definitely my prime contender. There is some attraction to the beauty of the design and the exclusiveness, but there are definitely predominantly practical considerations.

 

I believe you have made a wise choice with your dealer network for right now. If the system becomes more successful other dealers might come in and may offer better service.

 

I have been following your enterprise with greatest interest. With respect, I had little understanding for the initial prototypes and their market place, but the wide angle shift camera that's presently offered is definitely a gem, both functionally and aesthetically.

 

Best wishes

Confirming rumors about a Rollei autofocus 6x6, Shutterbug has a

paragraph about a "6008 AF" with an attached picture of the

"integral". The camera seems to resemble the 6008i with the addition

of autofocus functions, one of them a Trap feature which releases the

camera when a subject is in focus. They mention three autofocus

Schneider lenses, a 2.0/80mm, a 2.8/180mm, and a new 4.5/60-140mm

Zoom. TTL flash of the 3000 system was noted, possibly an improvement

over the 6008i. Definitely a hit for technology freaks and quite an

achievement. I guess the next couple of months will show how

practical the new toy is...

I have seen the same, but in between they have been on and left a message that there were problems with the server. I am sure they'll be back on shortly.

As 4x5 web images, Jeff, spread all over the MF digest, by ... guess whom...