Alternative View (Click for larger view)

In between taking shots of this boat, I was watching another

photographer, he was trying to cross the many pools and muddy banks

to where I was standing. Eventually he braved the deep mud and

managed to get to the boat. His name was Sahonraj (I hope I spelled

his name right) We chatted about photography, he was a really nice guy,

and as I had taken enough shots from the perspective of the anchor

chain, I asked would he like to step into my position and take a few

shots, which he did. I moved around and found a little bit of a sunset

under all that cloud and took this shot. My question is this: - Would the

image be better with, or without the human element? ......Your thoughts

and comments are always appreciated Thank You.

Alf, I think the inclusion of a person(s) usually, but not always, enhances a landscape photograph.  I wish I could explain why, but that's just my very subjective opinion after viewing many photos here at PN -- it's what I like.  Here the person is framed against the bright portion of the sky, and that makes for a good silhouette.

To answer your question: A man on this picture does no harm, he might enrich it and attract more interest of the viewer, but this man is hardly noticeable and when one notice him doesn't know what's he doing there, in this case the center of attention is being shared by the man and the boat equally, in other words the viewer doesn't know where his eye should begin from and stop to! Maybe you should have waited for the photographer to put the camera on his tripod and bow looking through the viewfinder and for that purpose you should have come closer or zoom tighter for the scene to be clearly recognizable!

Otherwise, the picture has your, for me recognizable qualities such as good dramatic lighting, nice saturated enough colors and good composition!

 

Best regards, Alf!

 

PDE

Beautiful composition, great colours and excellent lighting. In my opinion, in this case the person should not be included. It is distracting the viewer eye from the boat, which is perfectly composed with the reflection underneath. Very nice photo. Congrats.

It is a wonderful picture. Man og not. But I think the man distracts me and my eyes wander from the man to the boat an back again.

The light, clouds and colours make it a great photo.

A very nicely composed result with beautiful lighting, Alf!

 

Alf,first of all moment of this composition was very well chosen,or you have been right in time and place for this to have an this very nice light from horizon.Looking better there are to central points in horizon line,one is where sun light bright and eyes go there and second is in middle right where the clouds merge.I think that is in  tide moment and all those slops create a nice surface for reflection that gives a bit of light in foreground to see better also the sand shapes.From the beginning the attention is caught by two things the man and the boat,even the man is far from first layer and small compare to boat(with reflection) do to fact he is in light and his contour is well seen is an explanation for this.I read what Stephen said and I am curious about his opinion more detailed about to have or not a person in composition,maybe next time.I think that this depends from lot of things and can be a rule for photographers,each of us with his vision,each of us more or less objective in way we see,compose a photo.I opened this again and looked in large view that is evident can offer more details and think to all we discussed about this.

sincerely radu

The human element in the picture is good and it gives us a sense of scale too. Perfect mood and great details. I like the reflection of the boat very much. If I saw this picture without knowing whose it was, I would have made a bet that is yours !.

 

Sincere congratulations, my friend.

 

Warm regards,

 

Dimitris.

The human element is a bit of a distraction , but doesn't spoil a wonderful image . The dramatic clouds and reflection give a marvelous sense of the perspective and scale . I don't know what size you made the image , but on the large view I lose the R.H. side ! Bill

Hi Alf, one of my favourite locations to shoot, the mud can be a real pain and friend of mine sank up to his knees and we had to drag him out minus his wellies. I like the person in the shot he adds another dimension.

Jed

In my simple view, with the person it's a documentary photo, without the person it's a landscape.  One is not "better" than the other, just different.

Hi Alf,

  Beautiful scene with wonderful colors, reflection & powerful sky.   The man just adds to the scene .  Take care, Patsy

Very nice the colors of the Sunset against the textures of the mud with that somewhat ominous looking sky, all gathered around the boat, the other photographer, their reflections on the tide pools and, the other boat in the distance.

When I view the "larger version" I can tell that the "human element" is another photographer with his Camera positioned on his Tripod set at a low angle with a remote release attached and, his Camera Bag. (Not certain if I could have gathered all this without the information you provided in your Critique Request)

In the larger version I can also notice what appears to be a Pickup parked in the far distance and some building structures. But these are barely noticible and do not immediately draw my eye to them.

 

If two versions of this exact shot were hanging on a Gallery wall, (One without the "other photographer, " and, one with as displayed here.) And, I could only purchase one, . . .

Although my "artistic opinion" is really not worth anything, . . . I personally, would have a hard choice determining which I might like more!

Myself having an interest in photography, and recognizing the person in the image as a "Photographer," I'd probably choose that one.

Cheers Alf!

Regards always,

Jim j.

 

 

 

Hi Alf

With: Tells a story, your story.

Without: Shows a beautiful scene that would not be out of place on anyone's wall.

The main picture is so over powering in beauty and artistic drama that no other element is needed in this case, unless of course you are telling a story. But then i suppose you would give more attention to the actual story element. Every picture is different and should be viewed/treated accordingly.

This is a gorgeous shot.

To answer your question, if there is a choice, I would leave the human subject out as the feel of serenity can be stronger without it.  I see this is the primary strength of this composition.

But that's just my personal preference.  Well done regardless.

I think the human element adds a nice perspective. It would also be a very strong shot with out him in the shot. I am always amazed at the clouds and sky in your shot. They always seem to have a wonderful sense of movement and drama. Beautiful reflection in this shot as well.

Well done.

As others have mentioned, the human element gives a sense of scale to the image.  The photographers form, being that of a silhouette, is unidentifiable, removing that hindrance to a potentially salable image.  It is an other beautifully done work of art by your skilled hands.  A wonderful capture. Best regards...

 

-Dave

Alf,

This is a another really successful image.  The landed boat reminds me of fishing vessels we have seen in Newfoundland and Nova Scotia in Canada.  The image conveys a hard life in an empty terrain - looks cold too.  In reality this may be right on the edge of a city.  Well done, Alf.  Oh, just for fun, you may want to check the straightness of the horizon.  It appears to dip slightly to the right.  Perhaps this is intentional.  Thanks for your comment on my Vancouver image.  Larry

Many Thanks for your views and well considered feedback.

I have sometimes cursed the presence of people when taking landscape shots, but other times they can enhance the feeling of solitude. 

In this shot, another photographer is present, and that in itself might influence other photographers to like it. 

Fortunately I have enough shots of this scene without any human presence, so I can choose. But after reading your analogy I might keep this one.

Kind Regards

 

Alf 

 

PIERRE 

 

Thank you so much for your thoughts and positive feedback. 

I suppose I am at an advantage because I can blow the image up to the full 25 MB Jpeg file size and see every detail, including the camera on the tripod and even the cable release. But I take your point, the man is small in proportional terms to the image as a whole. But to zoom in I feel would have been a mistake, as the cloud area and reflection would be severely reduced and the drama and consequential impact would be lost. 

It's good to get your feedback Pierre, fortunately I do have a choice with this one, as I took many shots before the photographer arrived : - ) 

 

All the best mate! 

 

Alf 

 

RAY

 

Many Thanks for your thoughtful feedback and definitive view. 

It's very interesting to read these viewpoints, I get the feeling already that the opinions are very mixed, not unlike my own thoughts on the subject. .

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

LARS 

 

Thank you so much for your positive feedback, very much appreciated!

It is most interesting the way we humans view the presence of another.  I think mostly as an intrusion.  But if it had been for instance a horse where the man was standing would there be such opposition........ somehow I think not. 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

RUUD

 

Many Thanks for your interest and kind words! 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf

 

RADU 

 

Thank you so much for your thoughtful analysis and positive feedback.

It was most fortunate timing, although I had been there for about 90 minutes before sunset.  I didn't think I was going to get any kind of sunset at all, but a small gap below the large cloud back opened up to provide a touch of warm colour. 

The tide in this part of the world goes out for miles as it is on the edge of a river estuary.  One has to tread carefully because of the mud, you can sink very quickly. the trick is to keep moving ! 

I think Stephen may be referring to his experience that a person can and usually does enhance a landscape, could be a personal preference, and may relate to man being a small presence in the big picture, which I can also appreciate. The scale and proportion have a lot to do with this notion I think. If for instance the man was proportionally larger than the boat, and dominated the foreground I don't I would feel the same, and I'm fairly certain I wouldn't have clicked the shutter. 

Best Regards Radu

 

Alf 

 

DIMITRIS 

 

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and well considered feedback, very much appreciated! 

I am not always as tolerant of human presence in landscape photo's, but I think it very much depends on who they are and more importantly what they are wearing, very bright colours can be a real pain! 

Now that is interesting to note that you would have recognised the image as being mine, I wonder if that means I'm developing my own style : - ) 

 

Sincere Thanks & Warm Regards 

 

Alf 

 

BILL

 

Good point I suppose I should consider monitor size when I upload images, but I try to make it large in order that detail can be seen and evaluated.  I usually crop the image to 1500 pixels along it's longest length and optimise for the larger size.

Thank you very much for your thoughts relating to human presence too, it's interesting to get such a great overall response and such mixed opinions.  I suspect the views differ as much as I dither myself about the pro's and con's.

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

JED 

 

I have seen and admired your work from this location, it is a great spot when the conditions are right. Just at the moment there doesn't seem to be a lot of boats about, it would seem they have been removed because of the storms.  And yes, the mud can be a real nightmare! 

Many Thanks for your thoughts and feedback Jed, much appreciated! 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

JEFF 

 

I wish my thoughts could be so regimented and clinical as yours : - ) 

But thank you so much for your most definitive analysis! 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

 

PATSY 

 

Many Thanks for your interest and positive feedback. 

 

I think I might be beginning to warm to his presence : - ) 

 

Best Regards

 

Alf 

 

JIM 

 

You have very sharp eyes!  The promenade is situated to the far left and the sea is somewhere out there to the right. Being on the edge of an a large river estuary (River Mersey) the tide goes out for miles! There are even islands that can be reached on foot (Hilbre Island) just along the coast, though the mud and sinking sand are most hazardous and you have to know which route to take and pay attention to the tide tables. 

It is an interesting analogy you make as to the preference of the human element being present.  We are by our very nature influenced by anything photographic, and I wonder how much tolerance we feel to other photographers generally when they are in our presence and particularly when they are in our shot. 

Thank you so much for taking the time to view this image in depth and share your thoughts, much appreciated! 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

DAVE W

 

Sincere Thanks for your thoughts and well considered feedback! 

I think the content of your response actually tells me something, and that is the human presence here has the potential to present a story real or otherwise  that perhaps adds to the aesthetics of the image. 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

VICTOR 

 

Thank you for your most forthright and honest views, very much appreciated! 

I understand your logic, most fortunately I have several shots the man in the scene and therefore I have the luxury of choice in this instance, though usually that is not the case! 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

CHARLES 

 

Strange that you mention the clouds when I set off from home about 2 hours before this shot, there were only one or two small ones visible in the sky and I thought I was going to get a real stunner of a sunset, but I guess it didn't turn out to be too bad with the clouds. 

Sincere Thanks for your views Charles, much appreciated! 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

DAVE (DL Anderson) 

 

Thank you so much for your thoughtful feedback, much appreciated! 

A sense of scale is important, but sometimes humans can be a real pain in the frame: - )  This time however I think because of the near silhouette it doesn't detract too much.

Good points you make as to the saleable value not being compromised I didn't even think of that! 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

LARRY 

 

You have a sharp eye, you are the only one that spotted the horizon! 

I levelled the image 3 times during processing and each time I reverted back to the original.  The reason being is that the image just didn't look level when in fact it was. And now of course it isn't level, but at first glance it appears that it is! This drove me to distraction when I was processing it until after some deliberation I thought "to hell with it"! and left it alone : - ) 

It was cold, though on this particular evening the harsh winds had calmed and therefore it felt comparatively mild. 

 

Many Thanks for your thoughts and positive feedback Larry! 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

Love it

I'm late again, but you get my 2-cents worth anyway ;-).  First of all this has your trademark excellence and is a fantastic landscape.  For me, I think the subject boat with the far boat to provide depth would have been preferable OR the subject boat with the photographer, without the far boat. Two alternate subjects pull my eyes, just trying to figure out what I'm seeing.  And.... that horizon, man, crooked as a snake (just kidding of course).  Regardless of content it's still a 7....  Mike

Finally, another landscape from you! (I must confess that I find it really hard to get something out of animal photography.)

 

There are a lot of things that I like about this shot. The clear reflection of the stranded boat, for example. The structure of the sky, guiding the eyes to this boat. The attractive shape of the puddle. The other boat, very far away in the background, which repeats the main topic of this image. And, last but not least, the person that serves as a reference for actual size and height of all other objects.

 

However, as a whole, the image leaves me a bit confused. Please do not get me wrong here. I find this a good shot, but I'm not completely convinced by its overall appearance. Maybe it's this: I think what I find most irritating is the composition / crop. I would have wished to see more in every image direction: On the right hand side, because I want to know how it Looks next to the boat. On the left hand side, because I want to see more of the sunset. On the bottom, because I would like to see a little more of this nicely shaped sand, and to serve as a natural frame for the puddle. And also a little on the top, because the cut seems a little arbitrary for me.

 

Just out of curiosity: Is this the original shot or did you actually perform some cropping?

 

Hope this didn't sound too negative - because actually I do like this shot. Just maybe not as much as your other landscapes. :-)

 

Best regards,

Alex

 

Many Thanks for your interest and kind words, much appreciated! 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

MIKE 

 

lol  I used to user the excuse that I'd lost the bubble in my spirit level, but with the advent of "Virtual Horizon" I can't get away with that any more. 

I see what you mean about the two smaller subjects though, choosing between man and boat, and of course I did take the precaution of getting enough shots without the man : - ) 

Sincere Thanks for your thoughts and observations Mike! 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

ALEX 

 

I find it really hard getting any decent animal photographs period! But I do enjoy trying : - ) 

Your reasoning doesn't sound negative at all, it sounds like an honest opinion which I value very much. 

It's really interesting to read that you want "more" of everything and in a way very complimentary. I sometimes see landscapes and really yearn to see more too.  However I can confirm that  there was no cropping involved in this one and as I recall it was taken at a focal length of 15 mm with a 14 mm lens, so there was very little room to manoeuvre with the composition. Of course I could have moved further back, but then the proportional measurements of the boat and man would have decreased accordingly.  

 

Many Thanks for your thoughts and observations Alex, very much appreciated! 

 

Best Regards 

 

Alf 

 

Hi, Alf! Beauty as always! I love the sky and the reflection of the boat in particular! The lonely figure attracts attention and holds it - I want to see what is going on there! Beautiful touch is the reflection of the sunset light in the low left corner - wonderful picture! Warm regards, Tamara

Hi Alf- My take is a little different ,at least I think it is.if I read all the comments, would be here all night.. Without the man the scene imparts a feeling of isolation & remoteness, a lonely place.With the beautifrman it somehow brightens the image & an interesting place to be.Best Regards-Ross PS Beautuifull!