The Church of Glass

[melisa]

So, what would you do if the walls behind the alter were completely

covered in glass? The windows in this church open up to The Betsie

River and in the distance are The Sleeping Bear Dunes and Lake

Michigan--beautiful. In addition to the alter windows, there is more

glass at the entrance to the sanctuary. Will E-TTL stop flash before

it bounces off the windows? Can I still shoot available light for

the ceremony with all this backlight? Formals? I certainly plan to

visit and burn a couple rolls in advance, but I thought your advice

could be helpful to me and others as well. Attached photos were

taken by the bride and your ideas are appreciated.<div></div>

[melisa]

Here's the alter.<div></div>

[melisa]

And the other side.<div></div>

[melisa]

Forgot my equipment, if you need it-- 2- Canon film 35mm and a Mamiya 645, 550 EX and 2 Sunpak 383, 50mm, 85mm, 20-80mm, 80-200mm for Canon's and 80 & 150 for mamiya.

[ellis_vener_photography]

For your fill you will ned to need your flash up and away from an angle that

would directly reflect in the glass. Which most likely means diferent lighting

equipment than what you have -- if you need to use fill flash at all. Can you do

a test run? it is likely that the lighting conditions outside will be substntially

brighter than any ambient light level inside the church depending on the time

of day and weather conditions.

 

Probably what you'll need to do is use available light and blow out the back

ground during the ceremony and switch the flash on as they come back down

the aisle. You might also try positioning yourself at an angle to the altar if you

do use flash during the ceremony so you don't get the light bouncing straight

back at you from the glass.

[picturesque]

For the ceremony, if you aren't allowed to use flash, all you can do is meter the shadow side at the altar and expose existing light ceremony shots where the background will blow out to varying degrees depending on the weather outside. You may get flare as well. If allowed to use flash during the ceremony, place yourself directly in front of the couple/officiant so that your on-camera flash will be "hidden in" their bodies (the flash won't reflect back at you from the windows behind). I often have "bargained" with the officiant for only one or two flash shots during the ceremony just to have a few balanced outside to inside shots. Any additional off-camera flashes will reflect in the windows so I wouldn't set any up during the ceremony. Also, with the wraparound glass, you'll get a flash reflection no matter where you put it. I would also ask whether I could walk to the rear side of the couple during the ceremony so you can possibly get windowlight flashless shots where the outside isn't flaring out. For the formals, I would possibly lower my position to place my on-camera flash "within" the bodies of the couple but not use off-camera flashes unless you can also "hide" it in their bodies. This would work for larger groups, but you can't place the off-camera flash very high or it will reflect in the background glass. It appears the altar area is raised a little, which helps. You can also do the formals in another area that doesn't have glass in the background. Often times, I've even kneeled on the floor when getting the shot of the kiss with flash, just to be sure I don't get the flash reflection. Am confused about your E-TTL question. E-TTL does not enter into whether or not you will get a flash reflection in the glass. If you shoot straight into the glass, you get a flash reflection. If you shoot at certain angles, you won't. Angle of incidence equals angle of reflection. If you picture the angle of incidence in your mind, you can predict whether or not you're going to get the flash reflection in the glass, but as I said earlier, with wraparound glass, you're bound to get some reflections. You could also just shoot with the reflections and use Photoshop later, but in any case, I would balance the outside exposure to the flash exposure so you get detail coming through the glass from the outside. I personally wouldn't trust E-TTL. I would use manual.

[timberwolf1]

[Opinion] There is no reason to let the outside light "blow out" anything.

<p>

The one little risky matter, specifically the reflection we [may] get from flash unit when it hits the glass. But from experience, I know that the priest will be standing dead center in the middle. And I know that I will be standing dead center in the middle, too. As a result, the priest will be covering this reflection with his body. Also, if there were a reflection, it will be small, tiny. So, the risk of any reflection here is 1%. If I photograph from the side, the reflection will not appear because of the angle of its reflection: the mirror effect.

<p>

So, what we have left is the outside light. It is totally unacceptable [in my opinion] to allow this light to "blow out" your picture for the standard shots of the ceremony. Now, maybe you could use this "blow out" once for a creative romantic effect for one picture or 2 during the ceremony.<p>

Try fill-in flash in a similar fashion as though you are outside. To find out the "perfect exposure", try a test shot before the wedding. But from experience, I would estimate that the glass filters out 1/2 f stop worth of light power.

<p>

I don't believe in allowing auto mode to make decisions for me. So, I use distances and manual mode. I recommend that your auto mode may be fooled by this strong, very powerful background illumnation, and you should reject auto mode. That leaves you with manual mode, and you can use a flash meter to find out the correct exposure for the distances involved.

<p> Once you have the correct f stop exposure from a flash meter, you need to adjust manually your shutter speed for a correct exposure of the outside light. Then, I would add 1/2 f stop more exposure to allow for the wall glass filtration effect mentioned. how dark/light

<p>

 

 

[You may want to] re-stage the ceremony using your more powerful flash unit at your side.

[fotografz]

Melisa, are you using film or digital? If film, will you be scanning it?

 

After you answer these questions, I'll try to add a thought or two.

 

I promise to keep it brief, ; -)

[melisa]

I use film and my pro lab is Michigan Photo, they are"100% digital" now, so they send me a CD to order from, with my negs and proofs. I do not have a quality film scanner of my own.

[bruce_rubenstein___nyc]

I think Ellis and Nadine gave you the major points and suggestions. I just have a few things to add. One of the challenges will be to concentrate on the picture taking (good composition and pushing the button at the right time) while keeping in mind the lighting issues. Consider using all three cameras so that they can be preset for different shots. The 645 with the 80mm with flash should be ok for the processional shots so long as you get the camera down to waist level (kneel/crouch). After everyone is in put the 645 down and get the Canons for the ceremony. For available light shots, use an incident meter and meter the alter area before hand, then manually set the exposure on the camera that you will use without flash. Small differences in how much of the windows you have in the frame will cause significant differences in metering if the camera is set to any auto exposure mode. It's best to use the primes, because they will give you the least flare from the bright background. Use the onter Canon with the flash on it for a few shots. Just try to frame tight, and not shoot straight into the windows for some shots with fill flash.

[picturesque]

I forgot--on a few weddings with glass windows or stained glass windows, I've used a graduated ND filter to some success although it won't really help with the area immediately behind the couple or if it is really bright outside. Also, if the officiant insists on no-flash shots, you can take two images of the same subject matter--one for the shadow side and one for the outside, and combine them in Photoshop later, but this is a lot of work if you're talking about more than a handful of photos. And, do take a silhouette photo of the couple during the ceremony since the conditions are perfect for this type of photo. You can also restage the ceremony highlights later where you can use flash, but you'd have to be quick about it because this will cut into your time for formals.

[fotografz]

From your comments, I assume no flash is possible during the ceremony (usually the rule

anyway). That will be your toughest challenge.

 

A few suggestions to consider: Use a long lens and fill the frame with the Couple and the

Pastor. It'll cut down on the back light.

 

Is there a balcony? If so set a tripod up there and shoot down on them over the

congregation's head. That'll also cut down on the window light somewhat... and it won't be

directly into the lens. I've even gone up on a step ladder to accomplish that.

 

Finally, I'd ask (beg?) the Pastor if just a couple of flash shots could be taken during the

ceremony explaining how difficult the problem is, and that you want the couple and the

church to be depicted in the best light (pun intended). Set your flash on the telephoto end

of the flash zoom, and get low and centered, so the couple and the Pastor block any

reflections off the windows behind them.

 

Last, but not least, just stage a few key shots over afterwards, and use flash balanced with

the window light. That is the fail-safe method.

[philip_meadows1]

Hi folks, was faced with similar problem last week. I metered incident light at alter prior to ceremony and shot on tripod. I think it's important to remind the original poster that the image of the couple is whats important not the darn windows. Meter for them and to heck with the rest. Marc, got any more images from that D mkll yet?<div></div>

[melisa]

Thank you all for responding, I appreciate it!

[timberwolf1]

I will give you a tip, just as the

Bride and Groom reach the altar for the first time at the beginning of the ceremony, take a

flash picture, just one. The ceremony doesn't start until the Officiator speaks. So, you are

technically obeying the rules. Use a powerful flash if possible. Also, if the Officiator turns

around to grab something, with his back to the audience, you could sneak a flash picture

from the back of the church. He won't know who took the shot, you see.

[scott_abraham]

The expensive solution: Throw some sunglasses on that central bank of windows.You have

to find rolls of the acetate material at a motion picture supply house (maybe they rent it

out?), hang it from the top, and the entire area behind the bride and groom will even out.

 

or

 

Photoshop it: On a day with similar lighting, set and mark your camera position and shoot

a series of plates of the windows--exposed for maximum prettiness. On the wedding day,

take all your shots with the same position and lens, and expose for the bride and groom.

 

In photoshop, swap out all the blown out windows with the properly exposed ones.

 

Yes, it's cheating and represents hours of staring at the screen, but you just might get

those money shots you need.

[timberwolf1]

Scott,

 

I know that you are throwing some funny ideas in here. The problem is, others may not.

As a result, they may rely on your "photoshop" technique as a solution. Recently, a "blown

out" window in a room was "photoshoped" darker, and it did not improve the situation. I

realize that it is good theatrically to "leave them laughing". And my comment is a sober

ending; But I must.