mike_sanchez1 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I got a darkroon that came with Ilford ID-11 Plus and Perceptoldevelopers. I have Kodak T-Max, 400TX, and 125PX films. I visitedIlford's website for developing times. They do not list thePerceptol, but I would like to use it since it came with everything. Is there any Kodak developer I can compare it to that is shown on theinside of Kodak's boxes that show the developing times? And forfuture use, how do I determine developing times between differentbrand film (or paper) and developers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary evans Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 www.digitaltruth.com The Massive Dev Chart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Ditto Gary's succinct advice. The Massive Dev Chart can be accessed online or saved to your hard drive for offline reference. If you save it, tho', keep in mind that data on the online chart may change occasionally as new information comes in. While you shouldn't assume that anybody else's development data will give you identical results, the data on the Massive Dev Chart has always proven to be a good starting point for me when trying a new combination of film and/or developer. After one or two trial rolls I can easily determine whether and how much to subtract from or add to the development times specified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db1 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Get rid of those chemicals and buy some Kodak XTOL. It is simply beautiful with 400TX and I am sure it is the same with the Tmax and 125PX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_witkop Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Perceptol is a great developer, particularly with slower films like plus-x (though I've never tried the combo, I've used it alot with FP4+), and ID-11 is nearly identical to D-76, which t-max and tri-x work very well in. Ilford does have data on perceptol on their web site, with, I believe development times for those films. It's in the pdf on their powder developers (http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/pdf/powder_dev.pdf) along with ID-11 and Microphen. Unlike ID-11, Microphen and Perceptol don't have their own PDF's. Your best bet for finding developing times, particularly starting out, is to check with the manufacturers of the film, or the chemistry. Occasionally they'll disagree. When that happens, try a test roll both ways, see what results look better to you. Paper manufacturers generally give recomendations for development also, as a starting point with Dektol (my perfered paper dev.) I use kodak's recomended times of 1 min. for RC papers, and 2 min. for fiber. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_sanchez1 Posted April 9, 2004 Author Share Posted April 9, 2004 thanks so much for the answers and recommendations! every single one was helpful. and i will try different chemicals, david, but i have no experience in the darkroom, and i think it would be best to first use the chemicals that i already have to practice with, than to buy recommended chemicals that i might mess up on. thanks for the advice though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_sanchez1 Posted April 9, 2004 Author Share Posted April 9, 2004 i do have another question please. i am about to develop my first roll, but i am confused as how to put the developer, the stopbath, and the fixer into the tank. is this supposed to be done in complete darkness also?? the books i have only say to load the film onto the reel in complete darkness, but it doesnt say that for pouring in the chemicals. i am sure that it can't be exposed to light, so how do i pour them in without being in complete darkness, or do i have to be? and one more- i bought the tank used, so i dont know how much of each developer, stopbath, and fixer go in. is there any way to find that out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_crabtree Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 load the film in the dark, everything else can be done in the light. Although it varies from one brand of tank to another, you should be safe if you use 15 oz. of liquid (developer, stop bath and fixer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__wally_klinger Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 sounds like you culd use hienz 57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Mike, if you have the typical sort of stainless steel or plastic tank and reel system used for 35mm or medium format (120 and 220) films, these are also known as "daylight tanks" because once capped in the dark the rest can be performed in normal lighting. The lids for these tanks usually have two parts: 1. The main lid that is the same diameter as the tank. It will usually have a threaded or press fit to the tank (if there's another type of fit I'm unfamiliar with it). This main lid incorporates a baffle that both blocks out light and serves as a funnel into which chemistry is poured. (An exception is the Paterson system in which the snap on lid is a separate piece from the light baffle/funnel.) 2. The second part is usually a small snap-on or press fit cap that fits over the pour hole in the main lid. It is not necessary to keep this cap in place to protect the film from light. However, if you choose to use inversion agitation you'll need to cap the tank to prevent the loss of chemistry. Expect a little leakage, tho'. With plastic tanks you have the choice of leaving off this cap and using a notched paddle to twist-agitate the reels. Your choice. Lots of debate over which, if either, is superior. (Frankly, I'm tired of the drama over this issue so I can only suggest that you research the archives for discussions about agitation methods and decide for yourself.) BTW, while we all have our preferences regarding films and developers, I'd strongly suggest sticking with the materials you already have for about six months. It'll take at least that long to explore their possibilities. Mess around too soon with other films and developers and you'll never figure out what's going wrong when it does go wrong. Keep it simple, at least at first. Some great photographers use almost nothing but, for example, Tri-X and ID-11 or D-76 (essentially the same developer, one from Ilford, the other from Kodak). Welcome to the dark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silent1 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 <i>The main lid that is the same diameter as the tank. It will usually have a threaded or press fit to the tank (if there's another type of fit I'm unfamiliar with it).</i><p> Lex, some of the inexpensive plastic tanks (the low end FR and Yankee, for instance) have a cam-lock lid, like the lid on a glass pickle jar. And most of that class don't have an inversion cap,or provision for one; the only way to agitate is by twirling. A few don't even have a knob for twirling, you're expected to use the thermometer/paddle that came with the tank (and is usually missing if you bought the tank on eBay.<p> Beware on these tanks, also; most plastic tanks aren't light tight without the original reel stem installed, so they can't be used for things like developing 35 mm singles in tubes made from film cans (as for pinhole cameras), nor can they be used as emergency film safes if you have trouble getting the film into the reel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Cam-lock lids, hmm? Some companies just can't keep things simple. Thanks for the info, Donald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_sanchez1 Posted April 9, 2004 Author Share Posted April 9, 2004 ah! thanks very much again. i had looked at pictures of other tanks before and noticed that usually the stainless steel ones like i have have that two part cap that you were talking about. i thought mine was just one cap, but you confirmed that it was two, and i examined it further and did find the smaller one for pouring, it was just sealed really tight. thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_hicks1 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Dear Mike, Sorry to confuse you early on but it's something worth knowing. True ISO speeds are based on certain criteria of shadow detail and contrast. Exposure indices (EIs) are working speeds that suit you. True ISO speeds vary with the developer and with *most* films you will lose 1/3 to 2/3 stop with Perceptol, so ISO 400 (box speed) drops to ISO 320 or even ISO 250. Perceptol gives lovely tonality and fine grain with many films but if you switch to something else you can often afford to give less exposure. Of course you'll get coarser grain with devs that give higher film speeds. With Perceptol I'd kick off by rating films at HALF their box speed, then creep up by 1/3 stop increments per film until you don't like the tonality. Alternatively, bracket your existing films at the box speed and half the box speed and see which you prefer (there's no point in bracketing at twice box speed with that combination). Cheers, Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_sanchez1 Posted April 9, 2004 Author Share Posted April 9, 2004 thanks roger. if i change the iso speed of the film after loading in the camera, will this compensate for the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Sure, whatever metering you use - TTL or handheld incident or spotmeter - you'll have to relate the meter reading to the desired exposure index. So if you're using your camera's meter and shooting Tri-X (an ISO 400 film) at 200, set your camera's dial to 200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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