Very sad about what I discovered yesterday! Lens question

[flaviosganzerla]

First thing I have to say, this is a very long post... so please try

to ignore some problems I have with the English language.

 

3 years ago I tought it was time to learn Photography more seriously,

so I decided to buy new gear. I already learnt the basics with my

K1000 and a 50mm lens and after some research decided for a Nikon AF

system: F100 + 28mm 2.8D + 50mm 1.8D + 70-300 4-5.6D ED + SB28. I

tought it would fit 90% of what I would want to do.

 

Because of the prices here in Brazil a friend of my father bought the

equipment in USA for me. After I got all the gear in my house, I

looked very carefully to see if they were NEW and without problems,

like internal dust and this kind of things. After realizing everything

was fine, I picked up the instruction guides, warranties and other

papers and put in a box made only for these things (it is easier to

find warranties, fiscal notes when you have things organized).

 

So during this time I learned a lot about Photography, I even had

pictures in 2 expositions (with more photographers), one of these was

a "big one" (good for my curriculum). The two pictures selected (by

another person) for this exposition were made with my 28mm lens. One

was enlarged 24x36 inches and the other 48x32. They were very big and

for my eyes were perfect, sharp all around. They are in my PAULISTANOS

DA PAULISTA folder.

 

I have made sharp prints with scanned images from slides by Frontier

with this lens. Good color, sharpness, contrast... the 28mm lens is my

favorite, 70% of the images I have were made with it, it fits the way

I see things. Comparing the sharpness and contrast to my 50mm I still

prefer my 28mm. Fantastic lens this 28mm 2.8D... until yesterday!

 

Yesterday when I was making pictures of my gear for insurance, I

looked to my 28mm lens and couldn?t see the "D" letter. So I entered

in panic. I got to the box full of "that papers" and found that I have

a "28mm 2.8 not D", the 5 elements lens!

 

The first thing came to my head is that I will try to become a

professional photographer but how I wanto to do it if I am "blind"!?

It was like a punch in my head!

 

I never had any problem with flash using this lens, so now I believe

the "D technology" is not that essential. I don?t know what to say to

friends here at photo.net about the postings I made saying the 28mm

2.8D lens is a very good buy, I am very sorry about these false

comments. Hope none of you made some mistake based on my comments.

 

As I was not the person who bought it in the store, I can?t say if

the friend of my father made some mistake or if the seller sold this

lens for him because he was a uninformed buyer and it would be easier

to fool. But I am not worried about the motivations of the mistake, I

am worried about what I have and its quality.

 

So now I want to kind of discuss with you what should I do:

 

- Sell for a low price this lens and buy a new 28mm lens? I am

perfeccionist and will not sleep well every night from now until I buy

a new 28mm 2.8 D lens. If I like this lens very much and find it

sharp, I can?t imagine the sharpness I will see from either the 28mm

2.8 AIS or a 2.8D when I buy one of those.

 

- Keep the lens and try to ignore the fact (and all the people here

at photo.net) the lens I have (and use the most) is one of the worst,

if not the worst 28mm from Nikon, even if I find it sharper than my

50mm 1.8D.

 

The problem about buying a new 28mm 2.8D is that for BH it will take

one month to ship to my house, 30 days without my prefered lens is not

an interesting idea for me. And I don?t have money for it now,

probably the 28mm will have to be sold very low and it will not

guarantee me $ for another new lens. So my idea is to sell the 70-300,

I already made some anouncements here (in Brazil) before discovering

my 28mm lens is not the one I tought it was, so I need to sell it

before even dreaming about buying from BH.

 

I can post some crops from pictures to show that it can be a very

SHARP lens in the conditions I shot, you only need to ask.

 

What would you do if you were me?

I still can?t believe my lens is not a sharp one, really. Do I

believe in my eyes (the lens is good) or in majority of people here

(the lens is bad)?

 

Sorry for my English and for my very long post. I really need to read

some words about it and maybe discuss with you. Thanks!

 

PS: I would post this in NON ARCHIVED forum but tought it was better

to "ask" here in NIKON FORUM because your experience, so PLEASE DELETE

it after a few days, I feel embaraced for being so blind for so many

time, and don?t want to have my name in internet/archives associated

to this dumb person I am looking right now.

[dan_fromm1]

Your disaster of a lens clearly works well enough. So what's the problem?

 

Are you sure you're Brazilian? You seem neurotic enough to be a New Yorker.

 

Cheers,

 

Dan

[leslie_cheung]

So you made great photos with it but suddenly you feel it's

inadequate because of wrong version of the 28mm?

Sounds silly to me. Sharpness isn't everything...

[will_legge]

Let me see if I understand you. Up to now you have had no problem with the lens. The results you believe are excellent. The only problem you have is there is no "D" printed on the lens barrel? You cannot trust your eyes that the results from the lens are good?

 

 

I believe the "D" designation is for distance encoders, not for optical properties. If you are not having problems with your flash exposures, keep the lens. Flash exposures are not difficult. They had been made well long before distance encoders were added to cameras.

 

BTW, distance encoders are not put into medium or large format cameras. So how important is it?

[gib]

Flavio, if the lens gives you good to excellent results, keep using it.

 

One of the best Nikkor lenses according to lots of people is the old AI 50mm F2.0. It has been surpassed in the marketing effort that is never-ending to make people like you and I keep buying equipment that we don't need.

 

The true test is the results that you can make with the lens and your camera body, if these are good to excellent, then please keep to what works and works well with your eyes and brain and heart - that is the combination that makes a photo.

[jerry s]

Flavio,

 

Do not worry about the 28mm "D" lens for now. If you are happy with the results from your existing lens, keep it. I know you want the very best possible equipment that you can afford, so think about replacing the 28mm lens with the 28mm "D" lens sometime in the future as the money becomes available. Until then, your 28mm non-D lens is working very well, enjoy and continue to use it.

[joel_blacher]

If YOU like the lens and YOU like the results, who cares what anyone else thinks? It will be very frustrating and unsatisfying to make your artistic decisions based upon the opinions of others. There will always be people who don't agree and then what? Most of the gear out there performs better than we do as photographers, and the quest for the ultimate lens or camera is silly. Yes, get good quality stuff, but don't let the equipment get in the way of making pictures. Enjoy your lens...it sounds like good one : )

[eric_ung2]

If you are really so worry about it, why don't you buy the D lens while still keeping the non-D one. If the new one is optically similar to the non-D one, then sell the old one.

 

There have been a number of threads saying that even three identical lenses can behave differently in terms of optically quality, although I am not sure whether this is really true or not.

[steve_muntz]

The final verdict on any lens has to come from you. Nikon will love you for buying another one, but why? It's your favorite lens and you're happy with (Very) large prints from it. As you probably know, the "D" has to do with 3D Matrix flash and nothing else but maybe in this case there was an optical redesign as well. I've got a 50 f1.4 AF non-D that I don't see any reason to sell, it works great for me - flash or not.

 

Heck, I'll give you $20 for that piece of junk if you change your mind.

[Sanford]

The way they silk screen the printing on lenses these days maybe the "D" just rubbed off. Keep the old one (probably worth very little on trade-in anyway) until you get the new one, then you can compare and keep the best one!

[rotem eren rabinovich]

Hi Flavio,

 

I have owned both lenses (technically I still own both, but I have not known where the non-D is for over four years...). Looking back at slides from over the years, the D seems a little sharper than the non-D. Also, as I recall, the lenses looked a little different when held up to the light (i.e. shining a weak light through the back), so I'm pretty sure there was a change of optics. However, I think the difference is REALLY insignificant because: (1) every Nikon lens I've ever owned has had much more optical quality than I would ever know how to utilize- specifically, all have produced absolutely gorgeous results on Kodachrome or the modern slow slide-films; (2) every Nikon lens I've ever owned gets completely blown out of the water in every respect by the 35mm f/2 on my Konica Hexar Silver point and shoot (though, in all fairness, I haven't owned that many Nikon lenses). The only reason I bought the D was that the little screw connecting the camera's autofocus driver to the lens on the non-D broke (and could not be repaired by Nikon- bastards!), so that autofocus no longer worked. Because, at the time, I used the 28mm a lot, I figured it was worth the relatively mild price to get a replacement. One perk of the D, however, is that it has a nicer focus ring, so manual focus is better, too. Still, I would have just as easily bought a new non-D. Conclusion: keep the non-D and spend money on film. If you REALLY want to buy a lens, experiment with something else, like a 24mm, fast 85mm for portraits, or macro. I don't know it it's still in production, but the 24-50mm f/3.5-4.5 is good, cheap, and useful. Someday, when you're rich and famous, you can buy the 17-35mm AF-S zoom ;-)

 

BTW, I like the photos in your portfolio. You don't need better equipment if you can keep that up!

[work-page]

Flavio, you wrote:

 

"I am perfeccionist and will not sleep well every night from now until I buy a new 28mm 2.8 D lens. If I like this lens very much and find it sharp, I can?t imagine the sharpness I will see from either the 28mm 2.8 AIS or a 2.8D when I buy one of those."

 

Don't swap and don't worry.

 

You assume that there's a world of difference between the various models. Maybe there is some difference when you make pictures of resolution charts and study them with a loupe, but in real world situations, I very mouch doubt it.

 

What's more, because of sample variation due to production tolerances, a well turned out non-D lens will beat a D lens that only performs marginally within specifications.

 

I've seen it happen between 24mmAFD vs. 28mmAFD lenses. Everyone here praises the 24mm because it's got CRC (close range correction) and

disses the 28 because without CRC it's supposed to be sub-standard, if not downright poor. I've had two samples of the 24mmAFD which despite CRC had mediocre corner sharpness. I gave up on them and got a 28mmAFD instead that worked as a charm.

 

So again, if you've got a good 28mm non-D sample, don't swap and don't worry.

[mihut_ionescu]

I believe your non-D lens needs some serious punishing. You need to expose it to extreme heat (I suggest the oven), extreme cold (you can pick your favorite option here), smash against the walls and, just to be safe, put a spell on it (I'm sure can find a nice witch for this in Brazil). After all, this lens has deceived you, giving you nothing but fine results, all along being a non-D lens. What if those pictures start melting or disintegrating after a few years? You never know, this is a very deceiving lens.

[gaius1]

Sorry, but this is the funniest post I have seen in a long time.

[jbq]

The "D" feature itself isn't very significant. What may matter in this specific case could be indeed the older 5/5 design as opposed to the new 6/6 one. I wouldn't lose sleep over it. As you said, the pictures are good, and that's what matters. There are lots of other factors (camera shake, film, printing technique) that are at least as significant as the lens itself when it comes to final sharpness.

 

If you get the 6/6 lens, you'll then start to worry that it's not as good as the 8/8 variant, and if you want to be sure that you have the best 28mm you should seriously think about getting the 8/8.

[cham_saranasuriya]

Flᶩo,

 

Can you please summarise your question, this is certainly beyond my concentration span!!!!

[chris_markiewicz]

i'm with Mihut, although i'd go a few steps further. after destroying the lens, burn all of the negatives that came from that lens - in fact, burn ALL of your negatives. enroll in some sort of witness protection program and move to a remote town. start over in the mail room of a small newspaper (avoid the large newspapers in remote towns). then try to work your way into photography, using all D glass this time, obviously. additionally, i hope you posted this under an assumed name. nothing short of scandalous.

[tito sobrinho]

"...the 28mm lens is my favorite"

 

Continue taking pictures with the lens that you have. I liked your portfolio and it brings back memories of Brasil.

 

"...I am a perfecctionist and will not sleep well every night from now until I buy a new 28mm 2.8D"

 

For years, I made excellent "slides" with my ancient 28/3.5. At that time, my brazilian friends in SP ,used to laugh at my Nikon F (because of the way it looked to them in 1968). They were gearheaded towards the Contaflex. These days, however, owning a Nikon in Brasil, means possessing "state of the art equipment". In order for you to sleep better, take Valium and or buy a Hasselblad. A medium format will give you a better resolution than any 35mm negative, and if you like architecture and landscapes, a large format will correct the converging lines of your churches on the spot. A must!!

[albert_smith]

Replace your lens the first time that anyone looks at your photos and asks, "Hey is this really shot the "D" version of the 28mm Nikkor, or are you trying to trick us?" Of course, this will never happen.

 

It is about the photos, not the gear.

[vivek iyer]

Lens makers should subject their lenses to more vigorous tests before claiming them to have "D", "VR", etc features and better lenses because of "ED"glass, etc being used.

[frank uhlig]

I think, rather than buying a 28 2.8 D lens you might consider buying the 28 2.0 AIS version. Go to Rorslett's site to find out about the lens. Go to KEH to buy it used.

 

And forget about obsessing about equipment; but try to photograph instead.

[vivek iyer]

Be careful about 28mm f/2. There are sample variations and you may end up with an used lemon.

[hique]

"Are you sure you're Brazilian? You seem neurotic enough to be a New Yorker"

 

Flávio is probably from São Paulo, our brazilian version to NY.

 

Just kidding. Lol.

 

The Ai-s 28mm has supreme sharpness, but only close-up. So I think all 28mm lenses from nikon should perform similar. Don't worry so much about it.

[flaviosganzerla]

No, I don?t live in any major city here... yet! :)

 

Thank you all for the answers, thinking for 2 days about what happened, and coming down here after get up today made me slow down a little. I will use the lens as I am using and if sometime have the opportunity to sell and buy a new 28mm D (6 element lens) I will do it.

Now I know for sure that you can?t believe 100% about what others say when it come to lens quality. Thanks again!

[Sanford]

What if the new D lens is made in China?