I need tips for mixing and storing XTOL

[ong_cun]

I shoot 35mm (Fuji Acros, Neopan 400 + 1600 and some FP4+).

 

I'm interested in using XTOL and I've been reading around and it

seems as though a lot of people are having problems with this

developer...this infamous "XTOL failure." But on the flip side,

there are a lot of people who are having success with this film.

 

So, if I'm going to use XTOL, what are the things that I need to do

in order to be confident enough to use it?

 

I have no experience with powder developers. I only know that for

XTOL, you have to use distilled water.

 

How should I store it? Should I just buy one big accordian style

bottle? Or should I buy five 1 liter glass bottles? (I use .5 liters

per developing session) I'm looking for the best method.

 

Thanks.

[everheul]

I use the plastic bottles. Contrary to kodaks' instructions I mix at 100 deg f. I do use distilled water. I have always been able to use up the solution over a six month period, and I am not particularly careful about keeping full bottles...but i should be in order to minimize oxidation.

 

If you do small quantities, and only once in a while, you might consider a liquid concentrate, if only for convenience. DD-x, HC110 and Ilfords Ilfotec HC should all work well. I say this even though I really like the results I get with X-tol.

[karl_french1]

I use XTOL as my main developer. I have not had a single problem with it yet. I mix it

using tap water at room temp. It sometimes takes a bit of time to fully get into

solution, but its not too bad. I use a 3 gallon bucket to mix in and then pour it into

10 500ml amber glass bottles with sealing caps. This results in full bottles that are

easy to use when you process at 1:1 dilution and need 1000ml. I dump the 500ml of

xtol into a beaker and then fill up the bottle again with water and dump that in.

Usually there are only very slight adjustments required to get an even 1:1 working

solution.

 

I think its a great developer. I've used it with Tri-X, Agfa APX 100 and a variety of

Ilford films with excellent results.

 

good luck

 

karl

[elek_ludvigh]

Hi,

 

What works for me is to weigh out 24 grams of part A, 148 grams of part B and mix into 1670 Ml. of distilled water. By doing this and keeping the unused portions of powder in their original envelopes sealed in plastic baggies, I have kept the working solutions nice and fresh. Even without worrying about displacing air from the plastic bottle I keep the working solution in, I have never had a problem of any kind with Xtol in the three years I have been using this method.

I am not saying this 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 division of mixing up the 5 litre package is necessarily the right way to use Xtol, just that it has worked for me.

 

Regards,

 

Jay

[frank.schifano]

This is easy. I don't treat XTOL any differently than I do other developers. There's nothing magic about this developer except that it works so well. Used at full strength, it has working properties similar to D-76 or ID-11. Dilute the stock solution to a 1+1, 1+2, or 1+3 one shot working solution and it will bring up shadow details in photos made in harsh light better than many other developers. It also delivers a very nice balance between fine grain and sharpness Don't be afraid to experiment with developing times. The recommended development times listed on the Massive Dev Chart at http://www.digitaltruth.com are pretty good and you won't need to deviate from them very much to get what you want.

 

A lot of the "advice" you hear about XTOL, with the exception of the caveats about the now extinct 1L packages, is pure bunk. You don't need glass bottles. Plastic soda bottles work just as well. They won't break if you accidentally drop one and they are free or darned close to it. Top off partially full bottles with a shot of propane gas from a cheap torch. It's heavier than air and does not react with the contents of the bottle. Avoid the accordion bottles like the plague. They don't seal well and are a pain to use when full. You don't need to use distilled water either. I mix the powders following the directions on the package using tap water filtered through a carbon filter. On a few occassions, I've brought the filtered water to the boiling point and then allowed it to cool to room temperature before using. This will drive out any dissolved air and will allow any suspended solids to settle out. However, I've observed no difference in activity or longevity between using heated vs. unheated water. The municipal water supply in my area is quite good and your situation might be different, but most parts of North America served by municipal water will have a supply good enough for this purpose.

[henry_a]

What I do is make the 5 liters, divide it into 1 liter, 500ml, and 125ml bottles. All brown glass, quite full and tightly capped. When the smallest bottles are used up I transfer the contents from the larger ones to the smaller ones. So I have 125ml premeasured bottles to work from that are always as fresh as possible. Why 125ml? Because I can simply mix it with 250ml water for 1:2 or 375ml water for 1:3. Want 500ml of 1:1? Use two 125ml bottles. Simple, fast and always as fresh as it can be. I've kept it for up to 7 months this way. In completely full bottles only. Make your stock solution with distilled water only. Follow the directions on the bag. Let it sit for a while after you've mixed each ingredient - until its all dissolved then add the next bag. Later pour it into the small bottles.

 

So buy small glass bottles that hold the amount you desire for one-shot use. Cole-Parmer is one place. Photographers Formulary is another. They'll probably be in American units i.e. 4 ounces but don't worry, filled to the top they hold 123-125ml or 8 oz. bottles @235-250ml Keep the box they ship in and you have a nice orderly way to store them.

[bruce watson]

I've never had a failure, and I use XTOL 1:3.

 

I do mix it with distilled water. Heat the water to the hot side of Kodak's recommendations - it makes dissolving the powder quicker and easier. I then store the XTOL stock in wine bottles. I use a stopper system called VacuVin designed to keep partial bottles of wine "fresh" and un-oxidized:

 

http://www.peppercorn.com/store/product47.html

 

You should be able to find this VacuVin system at any wine specialty store. It pulls a surprisingly good vacuum that holds for a long time. I've never removed a stopper that had lost it's vacuum, and some of the bottles have been on the self for as long 8 months.

[melvin_bramley]

It's a good developer with a very long shelf life.Like others I mix it on the hot side! as it mixes faster.I store (5ltrs) in plastic containers with no noticeable problems.A question to others that have posted...diluted at 1:3 what times do you use for Ilfords Delta 100 & 400?? I only see times for a 1:2 dilution & yes I realise that a min' of 100 ml developer is required.

[michael_young3]

Is it safe to mix XTOL to a stock syrup for storage, and then diluting for one-shot at the time of use? I'm quickly running out of cabinet space, and the "extra" gallon would be a problem to store. Liter size fits well.

[mike dixon]

I also mix Xtol with tap water and store it in cleaned-out plastic soda bottles (1-litre and 20-oz, filled to the very top). I haven't had any problems. In fact, I can think of maybe two people who have directly reported they had problems with Xtol (and dozens who've mentioned "a lot" of people have trouble with it even though they haven't tried it themselves).

 

Definitely do NOT use the accordian style bottles! The plastic typically used for those is air permeable, and you'll end up getting more oxidation through the bottle itself than you would from and airspace at the top of a good bottle.

[barry schmetter]

I've used the Falcon Air-Evac accordian bottles for 20 years without any problems--I

think they work great. I make a 1.25X solution of stock XTOL by dissolving the 5 liter

packet in 4 liters of distilled water. That way the entire stock soln fits in a one gallon

Air-Evac.

 

I always use my XTOL at 1+1 (.5X) so I do a 1:2.5 dilution of the stock when I need

developer. A 1:2.5 dilution is 1 part of stock developer plus 1.5 parts of distilled

water. For 500ml of developer this equals 200ml of stock plus 300 ml of distilled

water--pretty simple.

 

Barry

[jorge_oliveira2]

This post is from the 'resident' Xtol expert of the Leica user's group:

 

http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/v25/msg00367.html

[roger krueger]

I mix with distilled water, but other than that, nothing special. Apparently most tap water

works for most people, but all the reports of failure I've heard either involve tap water or

the 1L packages. Distilled water is cheap enough it's just not worth the risk to me. I use a

4-liter plastic plus a 1-liter plastic, not out of any plan, but just because that's what I've

got handy. Haven't had any trouble.

[mph]

<blockquote><i>Is it safe to mix XTOL to a stock syrup for storage</i></blockquote>

 

You mean (for example) mixing the 5 liter kit's powder into less than 5 L of water? I don't think that will work well. It takes a good amount of stirring to get the powders to dissolve in the normal amount of water, and I don't think you'll get them to dissolve in less.

[markrinella]

I have been able to consistently dissolve the five liter packages into two liters of distilled

water at the high end of the temperature range Kodak recommends on the package. I am

careful to stir so as not to introduce more air into the mixture (not sure how much this

matters). I then dilute this concentrated stock 1 to 4 with distilled water to give me a

normal 1:1 dilution.

[lacey_smith4]

i pour the fresh mixed 5 liters into 240ml Mason canning jars (like for jelly, large supermarkets have them in a case), fill to the lip, put on the canning lids, and store in the brown cardboard box that the bottles came in. As I am more using other developers now, I often throw out the final 2-4 jars at a 6 month interval, but pretty economical and each jar is airtight/dark fresh.

 

The best general purpose one I've used.

[michael_young3]

Yeah, the prospect of keeping a liter in solution looks pretty dismal. UPS dropped off the package this afternoon, and it's a big whopping bag of powder, not at all like D76. It might even be a liter by itself, if one were given to exaggeration. I'll try it Mark's way first, and keep some in a clear bottle to see if anything precipitates out.