Two electron sensitization

[edgar_njari]

Hi,i posted this in the unarchived general forum but nobody

responded,so i decided to post here.

 

Does anyone know if Kodak is incorporating this new technology

in their pro or consumer negative films yet?

This is a revolutionary technology greater than the introduction of t-

grain, i suspect it will affect both motion picture and still films

In the motion picture bussines everybody seems to be very happy

with the grain improvement.

[discpad]

In the motion picture industry, they want it faster and cheaper.

 

Faster, cheaper, better: Pick any two. Hollyweird picked the first pair.

[edgar_njari]

Yes but this is the point of this technology!

You get all 3.

 

One photon produces the release of two electrons.

That means you get the same emulsion previously used for

100ISO speed film with the speed of ISO 200.

Or vice versa. You get a 100 ISO speed film with fine grain

of a 50 ISO speed film.

 

This can allso benefit still image photography.

All ISO100 films would have a lot finer grain,a grain of

a 50ISO speed film made with the same emulsion technology

[rowland_mowrey]

Edgar;

 

There is a lot of work published on the internet. Some of it relates to patents by various individuals. Have you read any of this?

 

It is very interesting, to be sure, but I know of a lot of 'sensitization' chemistry that took years to be commercialized, and others that never made it. Even though all of it was patented.

 

So, what stage do you think this new technology is in based on your researches? Is it a year old? Two? I would suggest that unless it is at least 5+ years old, it is not close to commercialization. At the very least, long term keeping tests would have to be run to prove that the film doesn't spoil before the customer gets his hands on it.

 

Please let me know some of your references and I'll try to be more helpful.

 

Regards.

 

Ron Mowrey

[edgar_njari]

It was introduced two years ago.

I don't know how old is it.

It is now widely used in the new vision2 series of

motion picture negative films and i have talked to a lot of

cinematographers that had seen the results.Everyone seems

to be amazed,and the new film stocks are getting more and more popular

It is already used in that field.

 

Even the intermediate film stocks (interpositive internegative)

for motion pictures feature this new technology now

reducing grain by a double.

The new 100ISO speed camera negative film they have introduces

this year is the sharpest film stock from all of them.

It even surpases resolution of the eastman 5245 which had

microfine grain.

 

Feel free to go and take a look at modern motion picture film stocks

and talk to someone that has used the new vision2 line.

[discpad]

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/onFilm/winter2003/vision2.shtml

[rowland_mowrey]

Motion picture film is at the high end of the professional film gamut. It is expected that the film is refrigerated until use, and processed immediately after exposure for 'daily rushes' to be viewed for possible reshoots.

 

With this in mind, it remains to be seen if raw stock keeping and latent image keeping are what would be expected for consumer films. I have no idea when you might expect to see this, but I would imagine it will be available first as a professional film.

 

I would also point out that there is an inherent limit to the speed of any radiation sensitive material due to cosmic radiation and thermal effects. Therefore, expect to see this methodology introduced in lower speed films for better granularity and sharpness. I would not expect to see very high speed films come out of this right away.

 

Ron Mowrey

[edgar_njari]

Yes i was thinking of professional still films,not consmer films.

Perhaps they will put this technology to the portra line

or maybe introduce a new line.

 

Anyway,i am not really all that excited about the posibilitty

of some ultra high speed films,because i never use anything past 200ISO the real potential in this i see is that for example

portra 160vs would have a lot finer grain.

This would allso rise the bar for digital imaging to match film.

It has already done so in motion picture world.

[benny_spinoza]

I wonder if this technology is already being used in 400UC (formerly Portra 400UC). When this film first came out, it boasted grain as good as 160 portra. Too bad this forum never seems to hear from Kodak film researchers who could answer these questions. They should monitor this forum from time to time, as Kornelius at Zeiss does.

[rowland_mowrey]

Benny, Kodak could do that (160 grain with 400 film) by just converting over to the new T-Grain technology.

 

Regards.

 

Ron Mowrey

[edgar_njari]

The t-grain technology was invented in 80's

Every modern kodak negative film features it.

So even 160 portra has it,so there still is a difference.

But i don't think that portra 400UC uses it,because

this technology was first used in 2003 (or was it 2002)

and UC400 is older than that.

[rowland_mowrey]

Edgar;

 

That is what I was referring to. I'm not sure that the 400 film uses T-grain yet. I know some films do and some don't. That is why I'm not sure of the introduction rate for this new technology.

 

Kodachrome could be a much better film, for example, if it used current emulsions. As you say "modern films".

 

I'm glad to see that Anabelle's work is being applied to product. That sounds like interesting work. There is more informaton from a company in Europe, but I have lost the URL. I'm trying to find it for you. If I do, I will post it.

 

Regards.

 

Ron Mowrey

[benny_spinoza]

Edgar,

 

Isn't Portra 400UC a relatively new film? I seem to remember that it came out only a couple of years ago. So, considering that the Portra films already use T-grain technology, I still wonder if Portra 400UC makes use of the 2-electron per photon technology so as to achieve about the same grain as the older 160VC.

[edgar_njari]

Yes,Rownald misunderstood me.

I didn't specify what technology i was talking about in my sentances so it came out wrong.

I ment that two electron technology is newer than 400UC,not t-grain technology.

 

T-grain technology was first used in motion picture films in mid 80's

And i think that it goes as back as kodacolor (but i'm not sure)

but i know that gold and royal gold is t-grain for sure.

Every modern kodak emulsion is t-grain.

And specially supra and portra. (supra is discontinued)

So yes i think that every portra film has t-grain

 

But portra 400UC is now discontinued.So i think it is older

than the new two-electron technology. Perhaps portra 800D uses

it.Or the new ultra color series films.