adnan Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 This is only my second attempt at developing film, but this has happened both times. (I'm referring to the area on the right side of the picture). Could it be a light leak while handling the film, or something wrong with the developing (i.e., not agitating enough?). Thanks in advance, Adnan<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnan Posted February 15, 2004 Author Share Posted February 15, 2004 I should add that this only affect a few frames (all in a row). Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann_clancy3 Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 what type of tank are you using and how much developer? also, are you pushing the reel down to the bottom of the tank? this reminds me of what happens when there is not enough developer to cover the reel leaving one edge getting some developer when agitating but not enought to develop to completion. I think we are going to need more information to be more specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpad Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 You also have Newton rings in your scan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnan Posted February 15, 2004 Author Share Posted February 15, 2004 Hi, I'm using a plastic tank from "AP". I'm pretty sure I'm filling the tank with developer, but its something I'll doublecheck next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_stevens Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 What the hell are Newton rings? I'm lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james___ Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Or the dev is not getting in between the film surfaces like they are sticking together., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 I would tend to agree with Ann if it wasn't for the 'a few frames' part. To me it looks like somehow the film is not placed evenly in the reel (?). Ann You eyes are better than mine - I did not notice the rings at the start! Roger Newton Rings are rainbow like rings made by light diffraction when two surfaces do not have perfect contact among them. In optics, it's used to check minute variations in lens surface from ideal. In photo, it gives unplasant rainbows in prints due to lack of perfect contact between the neg and glass surfaces (enlarger, scanner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpad Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Roger, You can see the Newton rings on the left of the photo, just above the overpass... This is a constant problem when scanning film on a flatbed scanner with a glass platen, as well as with drum scanners. The drum scanner boys use oil, which is a pain in the ass to clean up. Scannex and Tetenal make an anti-Newton spray; however the Kami "Scanner Mounting Fluid" is about the best way to go, from my experience. For a quick lineup of scanner supplies, check out: http://www.access-imaging.com/aimg2000/7c.htm Cheers! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_appleyard Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 In Adnan's defense, I'm sure he just plopped the neg down on the scanner to get it in here fast to find out what went wrong in developing. I think the last thing he cared about during his scan were Newton Rings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__jon__ Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 >Dan Schwartz , feb 15, 2004; 08:52 p.m. You also have Newton rings in your scan... Totally irrelevant to the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen hazelton Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 With the distinct line down the side, it looks like the edge of one loop of film was laying right against this piece of film. You might try loading a junk film in the light, to see that everything is going on the way you think it is. I've been having problems (using expired film) with the curl in the film being so bad that it jumps out of the reel as you wind it in (IE, the end of the film will pop out of place). For the inadequate-liquid problem, check the bottom of your tank and see if it says how much to use (minimum). If you just do one reel in a two-reel tank, put an empty reel on top to make sure it doesn't work it's way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpad Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 John, Read the Subject line again: "What am I doing wrong?" Yes, one of Adnan's problems is the fluid flow in his tank. But, he also had a second problem with his scan -- Newton rings -- and more importantly, it was *also* identified. In other words, Adnan (and apparently a couple others, too!) learned about what they are and how to stop them... And after all, this is what we're here for! Cheers! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramiro_aceves Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I also use AP tank. It is an excellent tank, but sometimes the reel "float" and film go out of developer. I fix the problem putting a plastic ring on the "central column" over the reel to avoid that. The plastic ring is made with an ilford fp4 film cap, and a hole inside. Sorry for my english. Ramiro (Spain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann_clancy3 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 If this is a two reel tank and you are only using one reel, place an empty reel on top so ensure the reel is not moving when you invert. THat is if you invert when you agitate. It is strange that this is only occuring on a few frames. As someone else suggested perhaps the film is crimping as it is being loaded, altho this usual results in large areas of undeveloped film; however that doesn't mean that the film is not getting some developer which is leading to this strange pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec1 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Since the issue was raised, please note the correct term is Newton's Rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silent1 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 The problem you see, affecting the same edge of all frames on the roll, is most likely caused by insufficient developer to completely immerse the film. I've seen it before and had it happen to me once when tubes I was using to process sheet film in a roll film tank floated in the developer. Check your tank specifications for the correct amount of liquid to cover various film formats. If you bought the tank used or discarded the instructions, put the empty reel in the open tank, pour in enough water to completely cover the reel plus at least 1/4" (5 mm) (do this once with the reel set for each format you plan to process, if it's an adjustable plastic reel) and then pour the water into a graduate or measuring cup, note the quantity, and use at least that same amount of developer working solution, stop bath, and fixer -- more won't hurt anything, as long as there's a small air space at the top of the tank if you're agitating by inversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_james Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I may be having a Monday brain cramp, but I thought I was looking at a positive image from the negative. If so, and if the affected part of the neg was undeveloped because another loop of film was touching it, wouldn't that part of the positive be dark instead of light? At first glance, I thought this was a fogging problem. But I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_piper2 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 1) this is a positive image (the light sources are "light" - it's a night shot with a parking garage or some other building lit up at right). 2) Therefore the blobby light area at right has too much density, not too little. It's either overdeveloped, underfixed, or light-fogged. 3) The blobbiness in the light area and the soft uneven edges makes me think "chemical problem", not light-leak. Either the stop bath didn't fill the tank sufficiently, allowing development to continue unevenly along the edge of film uppermost in the tank - or the fix didn't fill the tank sufficiently, leaving opaque unprocessed silver halides in the emulsion along the uppermost edge. Or the film was stuck together and none of the chemicals (but especially the fixer) could not reach this part of the film. Adnan: Look at the film - is that problem area on the film grayish and opaque? If so, try running the film through just the fixer step again (you don't need to go in the dark) to see if additional fixing dissolves the problem. Leave the top off the tank to confirm visually that the fix covers ALL the film this time. If that does the trick, then wash and dry as normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_piper2 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 P.S. I don't see any "newton rings" in this image - the amoeba shapes within the light area are the classic blobs produced when chemicals splash up onto uncovered film and "bead up" as droplets, developing or fixing one little circular area differentially from the neighboring film. The fact that the most distinct blob has a light "rim" reinforces my belief that this is a problem of not enough fixer to cover the film. A bead of fixer splashed up and stuck here, removing undeveloped silver (leaving a less-dense dark blob) but was exhausted faster at its rim, where the bead thickness (and thus the available amount of fixer) approached zero, than in the center, where the 'dome' of the droplet provided a reserve of fresh fixer and thus more complete fixing. The waviness and banding in the rest of the light area is from fixer waves that covered the film briefly during agitations, and then drained away between agitations, while doing a little fixing each time. Just as real waves leave bands in the wet sand along the beach, each 'slosh' reached a different height on the film, leaving a series of tide lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_piper2 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 P.P.S. on a different (LCD) monitor, I now see the newton rings in the shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpad Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Andy, NOW you know why I detest LCD monitors, and especially laptop screens... You'll pry my color calibrated 24 inch, 115 pound Trinitron monitor out of my cold, dead arms! Cheers! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnan Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 It was not fixed properly. I followed Andy's suggestion above and put it back in the fixer solution and the negatives came out much better. I think there was some permanent damage, but the negatives look much better than what I scanned above. Thanks to everyone who responded, I feel confident enough to develop something other than a test roll now! Adnan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_piper2 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Adnan: Cool! Dan: Well, not to pop your bubble - but the rings are visible on my work desktop LCD (Planar 17") but were invisible on my calibrated home Apple 17" CRT (do'ohh). But so it goes.....I prefer the "tube", too - better match to my printer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galitsos Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Does it seem to anyone like a double exposure? It seems to me like a curtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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