gib Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Bessa R viewfinder is excellent. The Bessa T101 body is good. The CV Nokton 50mm lens, the Heliar 50mm, and the Classic 35mm f2.5 lens, all suit my requirements. My Leica experience is limited to a IIIf and a 50mm Elmar. If the glass is the gas, the body is secondary. The more modern and possibly helpful specs of the R and R2 have already been noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin m. Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 But Bob, there's an opposing camp that seems to think that just because Leicas are expensive, they <i>must</i> be over-rated, and that's not always true, either. I hardly subscribe to the 'red-dot-can-do-no-wrong' theory, but the 'red dot' is still making the best overall rangefinder cameras in the world right now. <p> Let's put it this way: If Konica had made the RF with TTL flash, silent (or manual) wind option, and a .72 viewfinder, I'd sell my M6TTL and buy two. (But they didn't.) And if Cosina could put the Bessa T rangefinder into the R2 body and <i>lower</i> the price, I'd be tempted to live with the cheese-grater shutter noise. (But they don't.) So there were are. The R2 is meeting your needs (your results speak for themselves!) but it doesn't meet mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Kevin, let me clear up a point. I think Leica's are great. If I had the cash I'd have sprung for two MP bodies instead of the R2's. And if stealth is your prime concern (the Leica shutter, as I said is guieter), or you're putting 20 rolls/day through your camera, the R2 probably (and the plastic bodies R definitly) will fall apart after a few years. (maybe!!??). And I love Leica glass, for the most part. But again recommending to a newcomer to rangefinders that taking a chance on a 40 year old body over something new is, IMO counterproductive. Unless that person has a real knowledge of Leica cameras and what to look for, and someone who does know what to look for (problemwise, etc) probably would not ask the above question in the first place. Again IMO Gavin would be better to buy an R2 (or Hexar) that will be dependable and spend the rest of his money on Leica glass rather than CLA's, possible shutter problems or de-cemented rangefinders. But what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 The Hexar RF is a great camera, however, the smal VF mag is a great disadvantage for my preferred focal lenghts. Really, i don't find that problem, and i take lots of photos. The viewfinder is excellent, no problems, and i have used all focal lengths on it. If it was otherwise, i would say so, because that's the way of me. The Hexar is an amazing bargain, it's that simple.Tell me about a better built camera, or better lenses. Only the Leica, nothing else gets anywhere near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Bessa R2, not worth a mention in the same breath. Handle/Try them, then you tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Wow Allen, you should start up a Hexar forum. I have used R2's for 1/2 year now...I don't need to defend them, the photos I've taken (and sold) do all the talking I need to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Allen, you should start up a Hexar forum. I have used R2's for 1/2 year now...I don't need to defend them, the photos I've taken (and sold) do all the talking I need to hear. Wow, Bob, two old muckers like us crossing blades....don't think so; too much respect for you on my part. I'm sure they do a great job for you. However, i'm talking about value for money. Still love my M6 best, so there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin m. Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Bob, I agree with you. As long as Gavin isn't shooting a Summicron 90, a Summilux 75 or a Noctilux, then the R2 is a good way to go, especically if he wants a built-in meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Sad really, when folk argue about the merits of a camera, while thousands die of starvation. I suppose, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Allen, I've always respected your opinion. That's what I really like about this forum...a real friend can say 'I think your full of crap' (and they you), yet the friendship remains solid. This doesn't happen on any other forum I visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiba Posted December 4, 2003 Author Share Posted December 4, 2003 Allen - your point is very powerful and pretty uncomfortable to think about. Don't buy Leica, buy a Bessa R2 and hand the rest of the cash to charity. Photos would still be taken, but more folks would eat. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 The 45 year old beater M3 of mine has full adjustments for its rangefinder. The Bessa R of mine doesnt. The Leica M3 can be adjusted for infinity focus; like all rangefinders. The Leica M3 can also me adjusted at close focus. This is a cam length adjustment; that effects the gain of the system. This adjustment makes the infinity and close focus correct. They left this adjustment out of the Bessa series; as a cost reduction. All my Russian LTM bodies have both adjustments too. Thus the Leica M and the Russian bodies can be adjusted to true focus with a fast aperture lens; and the Bessa series cannot. With my Canon 50mm F1.2; the Bessa has two problems; the rangefinder is too short; and the body doesnt track close focusing; when infinity is adjusted true. <BR><BR>This focusing issue is probably not as much a concern; if you always stop your lenses down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Buying a Bessa instead of a Leica will free up some cash for charity, no doubt, but where does that leave the employees and share holders of Leica? I've photographed too many charity functions where the hall rental, gourmet food, wine, liquer and musicians, flowers, etc., used up a substantial percentage of the ticket sales. And yes, the photographer gets paid too. Then there's off rental in an upscale building, full time staff...it goes on and on! Not all of your charity contribution helps the truly needy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Don't buy Leica, buy a Bessa R2 and hand the rest of the cash to charity. Photos would still be taken, but more folks would eat. Hmm. Well, Gavin Hmm, your thought are well taken. However, maybe if we just bought quality built goods, we would not have to buy and buy again ! Or fill the need to keep up with the latest tec (toys). Sort of sensible, don't you think? Don't get me wrong, i'm no more noble than anyone else; i just think aloud, on occassion. Althought charity is a excellent option, there's nothing like doing it yourself....sort of getting your hands dirty. Always more satifactory. Just a few thoughts, not a lecture, take or leave it as you see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 However, maybe if we just bought quality built goods, we would not have to buy and buy again ! Or fill the need to keep up with the latest tec (toys). Sort of sensible, don't you think? Then more folks would eat....Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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