Pentax 645N vs Bronica ETRSI

[larryadler]

I currently own the older Pentax 645 with 55, 75, 150MM lens and was

considering moving up to the Pentax 645N based on the additional

features, but I was also looking at the Bronica ETRSI (seems the

pricing has done way down on used gear). I am interested to hear

other's thoughts on the two cameras before making a choice. I will be

using the camera for mostly landscape and outdoor portraits with my kids.

[tomweis]

<p>I have used the Pentax 645 only once. However, several things irked me about it:

no Polaroid back capability, molassas-slow flash sync speed, and the viewfinder was

abysmally dark. Good thing I was just borrowing it from a friend.</p>

<p>I do own a Bronica ETRsi kit: body, 75mm PE, 40mm PE, 150mm MC, 180mm PE,

AE III Prism, two magazines, speed grip, and Polaroid back. I bought the body, 75,

one magazine, and the prism new because they have a nice educational price

program. Everything else I got used.</p><p>The Bronica's strengths are low price to

performance ratio, 1/500 sec flash sync (good for your outdoor portraits with your

kids using flash), the AE III prism has a spot meter and adjustable diopter. Lenses are

sharp, but not as snappy as Zeiss, or Mamiya lenses. I was actually pleased the 40mm

is better than I thought it would be, and I love the 180mm (which happens to focus

down to about 3 feet!). Keep in mind the PE lenses are newer (so theoretically better)

than the older MC lenses.</p><p>Using the camera with the speed grip is really

nice. Feels like a big 35mm camera. The grip has a hotshoe on it also which is perfect

for the Pocket Wizard transmitter.<p>Gripes with the Bronica? The build quality is not

what a Hassy or Rollei are. I baby my gear so it really hasn't been a problem. The

focusing screen and prism combination could be brighter, but it's brighter than that

Pentax. By comparison the Hasselblad Acute-Matte screen is much brighter. You can

try a Brightscreen, Maxwell, or Beattie if you like. sometimes getting the Polaroid back

onto the</p><p>Hope that helps. :-)</p>

[dermot_conlan4]

What do you intend to shoot? You already have Pentax lenses.

Bronica ummm are they still invested in the future of any of their

SLR systems?

Pentax offers lenses from 35mm to 600mm, including 7 zooms

they offer AF but you can use your MF lenses on the older and

newer 645N11 bodies, mirror lock up is available, a 120 1:1

Marco, a wide AF 35mm, no need to buy an AE prism it's all

included, You can find a polaroid back if you need one but they

are costly, yes sync speed is slow but they offer a 75 and a 150

lens that syncs to 1/500th. Pentax is still offering new

lenses...Bronica ??? I've shoot tons of paying jobs using my

Dyna Lites and shutter speeds of 1/60th, with active kids try

using 35mm.

If you shoot weddings where you need 1//250th flash sync then

look elsewhere, if you want one of the best field cameras

available then stick with the Pentax.

[tomweis]

<p>... I meant to say sometimes it's difficult to get the Polaroid back to seat properly

on the body.</p>

<p>Dermot does have a point regarding the availabilty of some leaf shutter lenses

for Pentax, which is also a route taken by Mamiya for their 645 system. However

Pentax only offers a 75mm and 135mm (not a 150mm). No wide angle! Personally, I

want ALL my lenses to sync up to 1/500.</p>

<p>As far as Tamron/Bronica investing in the future... I don't really care what their

plans are. My stuff is paid for, works fine, will probably work fine for years, and most

likely will be repairable in the forseeable future.</p><p>Besides, the next big

purchase for me is a D1x or D2x.</p><p>Your mileage may vary. :-)</p>

[david_henderson]

First a comment on Bronica build quality. I use Bronica

professionally and bought most of my current equipment used in

1997, since when its been through a lot of travelling and some

fairly rough usage and it's still going and relatively trouble free

nearly 50 000 exposures later. I do of course have it serviced .

 

The 645N is an altogether more modern camera design. It has

autofocus and an automatic metering system that seems to

work really well. Manual focus is easy to use too. I have the

opportunity to compare often auto-metered shots from the

Pentax with my carefully calculated settings using a one degree

spotmeter and the results are most often very comparable.

Certainly better metering than anything you're going to get from a

Bronica prism. Handling is really good too and I reckon the

Pentax would be a bit quicker to use than a Bronica even with a

Speedgrip fitted.

 

Lenses- nothing in it really, though the Pentax zooms are

excellent if you want to expand in future. I know he 645N

viewfinder quite well and it isn't any darker than the standard

Bronica issue- if anything the reverse. It seems a little

warmer/amber though. The lack of mlu doesn't matter- the

Pentax is very well damped.

 

The Pentax has one or two very big disadvantages though which

you'll either find relevant or not depending on your shooting style.

Flash sync has been mentioned and I shan't elaborate. The

other is interchangeable backs. The Bronica allows via multiple

backs mid roll film changes. I typically want to access more

than one film type and this feature is important to me- might not

be for you.

[david_holland1]

I bought a 645N when they first came out. It saw some studio use, but I mainly use it for the things I used to use my Nikon F3 for.

 

Although the common mantra is that when you go from 35mm to medium you give up all the modern features, the opposite is true if you're choosing between 645N and F3. I never felt deprived with my F3, so a choice of automation (aperture priority and shutter priority) three metering modes, auto bracketing, etc, is like a Ferrari in the stone age to someone used to all manual or aperture priority.

 

If I were buying a 645 today, I'd still get the Pentax.

 

The only two raps against the Pentax have already been mentioned, but removable backs never seem to have been an issue (I use a digital instead of Polaroid for proofs, and don't use the Pentax much in the studio anyway). And most of what I shoot is portraits. I've never felt the need to switch back and forth from color to black and white between shots. I also shoot an RZ, which of course has removable backs (each of which would buy several Pentax inserts) and the only time I swap is to use Polaroids. I ususally find myself shooting multiple rolls of the same film. Everyone has his own style.

 

The ergonomics of the Pentax are great, and the autofocus will let you confirm focus with your existing manual lenses. There's no real need for a new lens kit (keep the 150 anyway).

 

I very rarely use auto anything, but when you really need it's great to have. I totally disparaged auto focus until I had to shoot an 11 year old on roller blades. I don't believe often, but when I do I'm devout.

 

The real question is whether or not you need higher flash synch. My only reservation to a totally unqualified recommendation of the 645N is that when you want to hand hold for close up outdoor portraits, meaning the shots you would use a 150 for, you really can't use fill flash with the lenses you have. I've got a pretty good trigger finger, but 1/60 is just too slow for a 150.

 

To compound the problem, you can't adjust lighting ratios TTL with the Pentax dedicated flash.

 

But doesn't all that disfunction (forgetting for the moment swapping backs) get back to where the Bronica is? If you get the Pentax 135 lens shutter and an auto flash, you're good to go for outdoor fill flash, and the rest of the time you're way ahead with the 645N.

 

If I had a Bronica, I would love it, too (I love all my cameras), but the experience I can share is with the 645N.

[joseph_ho]

you already have pentax lenses so just keep with the pentax! even if you switch emulsions, you will have 2 camera bodies! forget poloroids, what a pain. the pentax will be great for what you want to use it for.

[gbaida]

P645 was my first MF camera, later I got P645N to use them both, as a pair. I do not shoot much and often use expensive dr5 B&W chrome processing, so just one body without interchangeable backs was inconvenient. Now I feel flexible enough in film choice in my "low shooting mode" and "active shooting mode", when on vacation. Recently I used them in Death Valley shooting Astia 100F, Velvia 100F, and two B&W films for dr5 slides. Usually I put film with less exposure latitude, like Velvia 100F or B&W chrome, into P645n, and Astia 100F into P645. I found that I almost always had a proper film for a given condition with this pair. I used center-weightet meter for years, so films from both cameras were very well exposed, even though I rarely checked exposure with P645n for P645. Multi-segment metering of P645N is extremely reliable and printing exposure data on film edge is very convenient. I have same lenses as you plus 35mm and they work fine with P645N, except known problem with F-stop value displying. Strangely enough, even though P645N ergonomics is very good, I still find old P645 pretty convenient.