Why Glossy?

[dano1]

I just went over to B&H to look at my paper options. This time I

decided to see what kind of 4x6 paper I could buy. I used the 4x6

filter and went looking for anything other than glossy. After 3

pages of items, only the generic brand had matte. All the others were

glossy, high gloss, super gloss, etc, etc. This is beginning to drive

me bonkers! What if someone wanted a 4x6 matte?

 

So I ask you, what do you use? Glossy? Matte? Semi-Gloss? Pearl?

 

And another question, why does the glossy paper dominate the market?

Personnally I much prefer pearl or matte.

 

Getting sick the way manufacturors make everything for the majority

and nothing for the minority,

 

Dan O.

[maury_cohen]

I find several matte and semi-matte or pearl options on the market; Ilford, Epson, etc. My personal favorite is Epson Heavyweight Matte. Not even a "photo" paper, and in fact very affordable (about $12 for 50 81/2 x 11 sheets.

Glossy is popular because it produces the sharpest possible results and people buy it!

[dano1]

So you use Epson Heavywieght Matte?

 

How do the prints compare to something like Ilford Gallerie Classic Pearl? That's what I've been using, but it's getting rather expensive, at $13 per 25pk, + $6 S&H.

 

Thanks for the resposnse,

Dan O.

[dano1]

Also, I was thinking of going for the extra $4 and getting the enhanced matte. Is there any way I can find out how compatable it is with HP inks? Currently I use all 6 colors from the 57 and 58 cartriges.

 

I have been burned before. I bought some paper from Office Max. The stuff turned an awful green in about a month. There practically wasn't any image left! It's pretty bad when you hand about 100 of those out to family members.

 

Dan O.

[link]

Dan,

 

the Enhanced matte is made for pigments inks. Your HP dye inks may fade quickly on

this paper. Use heavyweight matte instead.

 

For best longevity you should probably stick with HP paper with the HP dye inks.

 

And, personally, I like the deep blacks and rich colors one can get from glossy paper.

[beno_t_marchal]

As to the why...

 

I have not been able to find a definitive answer but I have been told that the ink is the

culprit. Apparently glossy paper is more suitable for dye ink and matte paper is more

suitable for pigment ink.

 

Exactly what more suitable means, I am not sure but it seems to be related to longevity,

definition and a wider color gamut.

 

If anybody has more information on the technicalities (or can point to an article), I would

love to hear from you.

[dano1]

I would love to use HP papers with my printer. The problem is that HP paper in matte is more expensive than Ilford Gallerie Classic Pearl.

 

I think that here in town, a 100pk of 4x6 in matte costs $50! That's 50 cents a piece! I can get Ilford Classic Pearl online for $13 a 25pk of 8.5x11's. The per print cost in 4x6 comes down to 13 cents a piece. The only problem is that shipping is $6.

 

There is no way I am going to pay $.50 a 4x6 for paper. Maybe if I was buying Hahnemuhle or something, but not some HP paper!

 

I seem to be in the minority when it comes to printers. Seems everyone here uses Epson and Canon. I do wish my father consulted me before buying me a printer!

 

Dan O.

[Robin Smith]

Dan

 

That is indeed a mystery to me too. I suspect it has something to do with amateur demand being the main one sustaining 4 x 6 packs and these "amateurs" prefer glossy - more like a minilab. More "discerning" photogs may prefer matte but then they also usually can print 2 6 x 4s on an 8.5 x 11 sheet quite easily. Maybe this is the rationale. But basically I agree it is rather strange as minilabs often now offer matte or lustre in addition to glossy.

[marshall]

More and more people are using HP printers, now that they've released some that are comparable in quality.

 

There are a lot of matte options, but Epson's HWM is the most common one. A friend thinks that it's far superior to the Canon options when used with his Canon printer, but that's just one data point. I would suggest trying some of it.

 

That said, the luster/pearl papers will provide a larger gamut and richer blacks. But there's no free lunch; they cost more. Good luck.

[ted_marcus1]

I tried a number of papers before settling on Epson Heavyweight Matte. I get beautiful color from it, including nice black blacks. It has the advantage of a longer (estimated) print life than glossy paper, and it's also the cheapest of Epson's photo papers. I sell prints made on this paper, and buyers seem to be happy with it. If you frame the prints behind glass, it's very difficult to tell that they're not glossy.

 

Why does glossy paper dominate the market? It's because generations of snapshooters are accustomed to getting glossy prints from the photo lab. Printer manufacturers want to sell their products as "real photos," which means the glossy prints they've been getting from the photo lab. Admittedly, I sometimes encounter resistance when I disclose that my prints are on matte paper, for exactly that reason.

 

I have recently tried Epson's "Photolife" semi-gloss paper. It's supposed to have more brilliant color than their other papers. Since Epson hasn't bothered to issue and updated driver for my printer, I had to make a bunch of test prints to find appropriate settings based on the hints they provide. The results, while pretty good, aren't really any better than the much cheaper Heavyweight Matte.

[scott_eaton]

I've tried Epson Matte papers with HP printers and it was not a good combination. Dmax suffered badly.

[aaron_w.]

<I have recently tried Epson's "Photolife" semi-gloss paper. It's supposed to have more brilliant color than their other papers. Since Epson hasn't bothered to issue and updated driver for my printer, I had to make a bunch of test prints to find appropriate settings based on the hints they provide. The results, while pretty good, aren't really any better than the much cheaper Heavyweight Matte.>

 

Ted~ I believe you are referring to Epson ColorLife (semi-gloss) which produces absolutely outstanding results on most Epson Stylus printers (much better than their Matte Heavyweight paper) and ColorLife's archival qualities are also terrific! However, when using my Canon i950 with ColorLife, no matter what setting I try I just can't get it right. :(

[dave_flanagan]

Dan,

 

You might want to check Target for the paper. I didn't want to spend $25 at hp.com on a

20 pack of 8x10" glossy, was ready to spend $20 at Office Max, and found it for $15 at

Target. I wasn't looking for the 4x6", but it might be worth investigating.

 

Dave

[kent_morris]

I picked up several packs of the HP premium plus matte 4x6 paper for just over $20 for 60 sheets recently at the same time I purchased the HP7960 at Best Buy. It is very nice and I think looks better than the glossy version of the same paper to my eye. I think you pay extra for HP's claim of 73 years archival print:) ANyway, That works out to $0.33 per page. Still not super cheap, but not bad. I plan on trying the Ilford Galerie Classic Pearl at some point too.

 

Kent

[dano1]

Thanks for the replies all.

 

Scott, do you think that all HP inks will react the same to Epson Enhanced Matte and Heavywieght Matte? That is too bad. Someone else said that HP inks will not last long on Enhanced Matte, this is unfortunate.

 

I still don't want to spend over $30 for 50 sheets of 8.5x11, but it is better than buying 60 sheets of HP Matte in 4x6 for $20. I can get 200 4x6's out of the 50 sheets of Ilford.

 

I just wish there was a better selection of affordable matte/pearl papers for HP inks.

 

Right now for cheap prints I'm using some Canon matte paper. The stuff is halfway between a real photo paper and regular old inkjet paper. The stuff is something like 8mil. BTW, how do I find out how many mil Ilford Classic Pearl is? I think they use a different measuring system in the spec's. Perhaps Ilford uses metric and Canon uses ANSI, (inches).

 

Without a doubt, I think this whole conversation has convinced me to use Ilford Gallerie papers for everything that I sell. The reason is that I don't think I can trust anything cheaper for it's longevity/quality with HP inks.

 

I have been burned before. I was young and stupid and bought a 100pk of Office Max(or it might have been Office Depot) 4x6 paper for $20. I printed photos on every sheet for my family and relatives. Within a month everything that was exposed to light turned an awful green. By three months there was basically no image left. We are still trying to get all those photos reprinted on a good paper, so for me, Ilford Gallerie Classic Pearl is my choice.

 

I still would like to find an inexpensive paper that I can use for my albums. The Epson Ehnanced Matte and Heavyweight Matte looked tempting, it's too bad they won't work with Hp inks.

 

Thanks again for all the replies,

Dan O.

[ted_kostek]

A question was asked about the technical reasons why HP inks don't work on some Epson papers. A partial answer can be found on page 13 of the photo-i interactive review of the HP7960. Frames or something prevent me from having the complete link, but this will get you to their home page:

 

http://www.photo-i.co.uk/

 

They describe some of how the papers work. Based on this information, and knowing Epson papers are designed for pigments not dyes, I speculate the Epson paper is not swellable. Therefore, the ink doesn't adhere well to the surface.

 

I'm sure there's much more information available, but this is what I know.