drjedsmith Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Well, I was looking at some old B&W pictures today, and that got me to hankering for trying the B&W stuff again after a few months of laying off. The 4 I tried so far were Tri-X, T-Max, AGFA, and a Kodak C-41 (which I didn't much care for).<BR>What I'd like to concentrate on this time is fine grain for landscape shots, because I'm back in S.E. Alaska. If I get a stunner, I'd like to blow it up large - at least 16".<BR>Also, I realize that it's as much the developer as film, so could anyone recommend a fine grain combo that won't break the bank? I was thinking maybe Ilford Delta 100 or HP5, not sure which is better. I'd like to try both 100 and 400 ISO types this time.<BR>One of these days I'd like to get a dark room together and develop my own...not sure where to begin, though, because I moved, and plans fell through to get the enlarger and stuff I was going to get...<BR>Thanks for any help,<BR>Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjen van de merwe Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Generally slower film has finer grain. New technology films (Delta, T-max) have finer grain than old technology films of the same speed. So Delta100 is much finer grain than HP5. For more info check www.digitaltruth.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric merrill Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 <i>Also, I realize that it's as much the developer as film, so could anyone recommend a fine grain combo that won't break the bank?</i> <p> You'd be hard pressed to beat Fuji (Neopan) Acros 100 (or even Neopan 400) in Xtol 1:3. I buy from B&H in packs of 20. Less than $4 per roll. I develop in a liter tank, so I can do 4 rolls at a time. All told, I figured at one time that my developing expense for chemicals is something around 40 cents a time, or 10 cents a roll. A packet of Xtol that makes 5L of solution is good for 19 batches or 76 rolls for me when used at this dilution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_curry Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Try Efke 25 and PMK Pyro. It will have to run at asa 12, so figure on a tripod and windless days, but you won't find any grain on the film with this combination. Efke 25 from J&C is a bit over $3.00 a roll. PMK will set you back about $25.00 for a kit that makes upwards of 50L. PMK is mixed each time and thrown away, but if you are mixing for each roll, it will cost about $0.18 per roll for developer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug_bennett Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I, like Tim, also like Efke, but because it's orthopanchromatic (decreased red sensitivity), it's not my favorite landscape film. How about Agfa APX 100 ($2.09 per roll) and Rodinal? Maybe not the finest grain, but certainly razor sharp grain. For 400 ISO, maybe Tri-X in Rodinal (lots of grain but lots of sharp) or HP5 in HC-110 (less acutance but great highlights). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_goldfarb Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 If you shoot 35mm, then bulk loading your film will give you the most for your money usually (occasionally there are exceptions, as when B&H sometimes sells import color slide film for less per roll than the USA labeled film of the same type in bulk). Agfa APX 100 is an attractive film that always struck me as surprisingly cheap. Efke 100 is also inexpensive and a nice film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_davis2 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Having spent yesterday cursing how hard it was to find any grain to focus on the best way to get low grain is to use a larger format. This from an 8x10 cropped out of much larger print. Go up to at least MF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartMoxham Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 FP4+ in D76 1:1 is a nice combo with fairly fine grain. Ilford PanF in D76 1:1 is even finer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 FP4 in Acutol. Nothing else comes close.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_de_fehr Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Tmax 100 in Xtol is a very fine grained combination, as is Ilford Pan F in Perceptol, or any number of slow film/fine grain developer combos. Of course nothing comes close to the grainlessness of Technical Pan in either Technidol or TD-3, but Tech Pan is among the more expensive films, and Technidol among the more expensive developers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco_buonocore Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I'll go with the crowd on this one; 120 rolls of APX 100 cost me $2.60CDN and Rodinal 1:50 costs nothing. Great, consistent results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_walton2 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 One of the most cost effective developers you can use, that is extremely fine grain and compensating (no blown out highlights and great shadow detail) is Divided D76. Mixed up yourself or commercially gotten at Photo Formulary, is a breeze to use. You have Bath A and Bath B. Both have times of about 3 minutes in each bath. Bath B is nothing more than a Borax solution which is extremely cheap to mix up by the gallon. Temperature isn't really critical but is is wise to keep everything the same temp. You negs (non t-grained films) will come out with very easily printable negatives with detail in every tonal range. Typically, I will mix up a gallon of Bath A and B and have reused them for as long as 1.5 years! Another alternative is to use Diafine, there again another 2 bath developer, with a sharper grain, albeit a fine grain also, and the same compensating effects as DD76. The difference between the two developers, Diafine gives a bit more speed but a higher acutance (sharper edges). I have done alot of tests with Diafine and different films and have not found that it gives as much speed as stated (35mm, you may get a 1 stop speed increase) but it is superb as is the DD76. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth_harper Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Films like tri-x, FP4, APX100/400 spring to mind combined with Rodinal would suit your needs well. Rodinal is not the finest grained developer but it is very crisp which is more important I think. A 500ml bottle of Rodinal in the UK costs about £6.99 at 1/50 dillition it should do a good few films, more than 100 I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timothy_nolan Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 ...i can usually find Fortepan 100, 200 and 400 at my local store for $1.99 a roll... ...those in either D-76 1:1 or Rodinal 1:25 give me the results I seek, though I'm usually going for an "antique" sort of look that such older soups seem to give... ...might just be my methods though, hard to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_waller Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Ilford Delta 100 or Kodak TMax 100 rated at 50 ASA and devved in Rodinal, 1:50, 20 C, 7 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjedsmith Posted February 3, 2004 Author Share Posted February 3, 2004 Thanks everyone for the help! I think I've settled on starting with AGFA APX-100, mostly for the cost and sharpness. Are any of the developers you all suggested a powder form? I'm thinking it would save on shipping... if not, I'll just order the liquid form. Trying to decide between Rodinol and D76, unless something else would be easier. Which would be easiest and best for the APX-100? (this is my first time since high school doing this.) A friend said she'd loan me her dark room equipment she doesn't use anymore, so I could get started this week...just need to know which developer to order. Thanks again so much, Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Acutol is easier to use and better than D76 or Rodinal...for films in this speed class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan_brittenson Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Rodinal is an excellent developer for APX100. Cheap, easy to use (get a 100ml beaker for measuring), can sit on the shelf for a year or two. No mixing powders or keeping stock solutions, just the right thing to get you started with a minimum of fuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjedsmith Posted February 3, 2004 Author Share Posted February 3, 2004 Thanks - will the Acutol have as fine of grain or sharpness? I really should use something pretty simple for the first go here... I almost forgot - can I use any stop bath or fixer? Or are there certain ones to use with certain developers? (When I was in school, the instructor did all that deciding for us.) :-) I appreciate it! Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Jedidiah Smith , feb 03, 2004; 07:43 p.m. "Thanks - will the Acutol have as fine of grain or sharpness?" Finer grain, better sharpness, and more speed than Rodinal. There is no comparison. "I really should use something pretty simple for the first go here..." Just dilute with water and go... "I almost forgot - can I use any stop bath or fixer? Or are there certain ones to use with certain developers?" No, any stop bath will work just fine. You need not worry. I would strongly recommend rapid fixer, not powder fixer, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_appleyard Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 If you don't mind a powder dev., longer dev. times and mixing it yourself, D-23 1:3 is pretty cheap. I run Plus-x through it for 16.5 min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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