Leicas are actually quite cheap

[h._p.]

I found some interesting prices in the 1968-69 Wallace Heaton

catalogue. A Leica M4 with a Summicron cost £259 while a Nikon

Photomic with 50/f1.4 cost £292. A 35mm Summicron cost £87 while the

Nikkor 35/2 cost £116. The 135mm Elmarit cost £98 against £87 for the

135mm/2.8 Nikkor.

 

When you think of the secondhand prices for all this kit 35 years

later, I reckon that the Leica looks like very cheap equipment.

[chad_hahn]

Even today the Leica is about the same price as an F Nikon. Then when you compare all the features the F5 has compared to the M7 the price begins to seem high.

[dan_brown4]

For the price of a new MP, one can also purchase the following used gear, all in

excelent-plus condition.

 

Nikon F3 HP

 

28/2.0 AIS Nikkor

 

50/1.2 AIS Nikkor

 

105/1.8 AIS Nikkor

 

200/4 AIS Micro Nikkor

 

28-85/3.5-3.5 AIS Nikkor

 

which, is a pretty decent little camera kit in its own right.

 

BTW, the lens for the MP is extra ;^)

[Robin Smith]

Yes, but for the price of a new MP you could also get an M2 with 35 Summaron, 50mm Summicron and a 90 Elmar and perhaps even a 135mm Elmar too. So it goes.... It is difficult to compare new with s/h.

[patrick_jelliffe]

Excellent point, Harvey. We get to use them, (well, some of us--not the fondlers;^), AND they hold their value better than most other makes. Cheers

[douglas_green1]

They may look cheap now, but when they are worth 1/2 as much in 10 years, they will look awfully expensive, and you'll wish you bought a Bessa R2 instead. I'd surmise that in a decade, an R2 will have depreciated from $450 or so new today, to $100-200 depending on condition, while an MP will have depreciated from $2400 or so to between $1000 and $1500, also depending on condition. I'd rather lose a higher percentage on the R2, than a FAR higher absolute amount on the MP.

[Allen Herbert]

Harvey, someone has got to tell you, it's 2004. You are such a worry. Harvey, Dennis only sent you that 1968 Diary as a joke, honest.

[mark_ryan2]

Or about 836 Fujifilm Quicksnap 35mm One-Time-Use Camera - 24 Exposures (Price: $ 2.99).

[jay_.]

<<I'd surmise that in a decade, an R2 will have depreciated from $450 or so new today, to $100-200 depending on condition, while an MP will have depreciated from $2400 or so to between $1000 and $1500, also depending on condition.>>

 

I disagree. In a decade there will still be foolhardy people then as now who will pay double what an MP is worth compared to an M6 as there are now. And plus they will pay $150 a roll for Tri-X from somebody's freezer stash too. The Bessa R OTOH, if you leave it on the hood of your car in South LA you'll have to pay somebody to steal it.

[Allen Herbert]

Double what an MP is worth compared to an M6

 

 

Well, I have to agree. But to add a though, photography is a about enjoying yourself. There are many paths, who�s to say what one is right.

 

I used to know a bloke who loved taking photos of pub signs. That's what photography was all about, as far as he was concerned. That's what he enjoyed; who is to say he was wrong? There's a thought,all about enjoying yourself.

[Allen Herbert]

Sort of like the Path to God. That's what all the mystics say.

[markci]

>>> A 35mm Summicron cost £87 while the Nikkor 35/2 cost £116. The 135mm Elmarit cost £98 against £87 for the 135mm/2.8 Nikkor. <<<

 

The only thing that leaps out at me from these figures is that Nikon still sells both 35 f/2 and 135 f/2.8 manual focus lenses each for around $300, only about a 2x increase from 1969. Whereas a Summicron will set you back maybe 9x its 1969 cost.

[neil_parker]

The mystics say the path of God is through a pub sign? Cool...:)

[wind.dk]

<P>... in the sixties... perhaps.</P>

 

<P>I must admit, I've never understood this obsession with second-hand sale value. Although a Leica does come in handy in <A HREF="http://www.dfi.dk/dfi/english/featurefilms/reconstruction.html">Reconstruction</A>, the average Leica owner will probably be killed by a meteorite more often than really truly benefit from the resale value of his or her equipment - after taking the accumulated financial loss of the original purchase into consideration.</P>

 

<P>What such an old price list really shows, if it shows anything at all, is that Leicas have remained expensive while comparable equipment has come down in price.</P>

 

<P>For the record, death by meteorite is not as improbable as usually assumed, and Reconstruction is in <A HREF="http://www.wind.dk/film.descriptions/?handle=reconstruction.c_boe">my opinion</A> a very good movie - <CITE>"Never trust a man with a camera"</CITE> <CODE>:-D</CODE></P>

[crackers_.]

Buy a hundred FED2s. One of em has to work.

[billangel]

Douglas Green wrote:

<I>I'd surmise that in a decade, an R2 will have depreciated from $450 or so new today, to $100-200 depending on condition, while an MP will have depreciated from $2400 or so to between $1000 and $1500, also depending on condition...</I>

<P>

I wonder if that depreciation figure (approx 50%) would also apply to the "special edition" Leicas that are being produced.

For example, see writeup on the <A href="http://www.leica-camera.com/produkte/msystem/sondermodelle/hermes/index_e.html">MP Edition Hermes</A> One would, at least in principle, expect the special editions to hold their value better than the standard assembly line MP models.

[bart feliciano]

?! What's all the fuss?

 

How much did you spend on your last car?

 

Which will last longer?

 

Seems cheap to me.

[jsbc]

Given the advent of technology, we should treat film cameras the way we regard film - as consumables.

[bart feliciano]

Johnson,

 

That's exactly what the marketing people want you to do.

[richard_ilomaki]

Photos of pub signs-Now THERE's the path to spiritual(pun intended) enlightenment and many mystics have come out from under pub signs-many more than have gone in.

 

In a country like England a collection of pub sign photos would be most entertaining. I once saw a book of photos of nothing but sunshine motives on doors and signs in England. Somebody actually published the book and I actually bought it.

 

A pint of Greenall's please my good man!!! Then a pint of Theakston's Old Peculiar, before I go under the next sign for a Tennant's and then....... into the canal trying to find my way home!!

 

Cheers HIC

[art__]

Harvey,

 

Your analysis may be in error without consideration given to exchange rates in 1968-69. In the US during that time, most Japanese products were quite inexpensive while a Mercedes was very expensive. Dollar vs. Pound vs. Yen vs. Mark in 1968? Anyone care to check?

[richard_milner2]

>The mystics say the path of God is through a pub sign? Cool...:)

 

Quite a few people have spoken to God on the great white telephone after coming home from the pub.

[bobtodrick]

Or look at it this way. In 20 years that MP will probably fetch, in new condition, what you paid for it. A Nikon D1( the original) that sold for $5000 5 years ago is now worth no more than $500 on the used market.

[douglas_green1]

Of course, if you actually USE your MP, it won't be in anything CLOSE to new condition in 20 years, especially because paint wear is notoriously bad on these. So, it probably will have depreciated by over $1000 by then.

[gary_ferguson1]

Harvey, go back a few years earlier and British Leica pricing looked even more incredible. From the second world war up to 1959 the UK sales tax on cameras was a breath taking 60%, added to which luxury cameras such as Leicas needed a virtually unobtainable import licence. Consequently in the late 1950's the few smuggled M3's in the UK traded second-hand for stupendous prices. Bechmarked against average earnings of the time an M3 plus Summicron would cost in today's terms about £6-7,000. And apparently they still flew out of the dealer's windows!

 

Another side effect of the import controls was that it shielded British manufacturers and allowed them to make some of the worst cameras on the planet. Yes, there was the very fine Reid, but there was also the very nasty Corfield with its bizzare periscope reflex focusing and Leica thread mount lenses. If you're ever in London give me a call, we'll have a pint and you can give the Corfield a test drive. You'll struggle to get a printable photograph but it's a guaranteed cure for any complaints about M6 viewfinder flare or frame line innacuracy!