travis1 Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 "The only thing worse than taking an elitist stance with no photographs in your folder, is to do it with excellent photographs in your folder" ---Tom .. exactly! this is the sort of behaviour I cannot comprehend. Is there always a need to level people up based on what you know, what you have achieved and what people recognise you with(your so called "good " photography), with other "mediocre" photographers? Objectively, I don't give a shyt(sorry grant). I don't see Salgado doing it in this forum, why should anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis1 Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 I'd go on to say that I have much respect for Rob's work and when I first got into photo forums a few years back, having not touch a camera for quite a many years prior, it was Rob's work I got to see quite prominently in this forum that sort of got me interested in snapping again. Im not sure why he is always putting down folks here but I am damn sure he has much much more to offer folks here who had not got the chance to see what he saw or experience through maybe illustrations, writeups or even online classes wrt documentary photography. Im sorry Rob I brought you up as an example. But I truly feel you are more than capable of occasional put downs and simple comparisons, however true those opnions may sound to you. SOmetimes we know, but we don't need to keep pronouncing them. IMHO. ANything should be better than just saying :"I like seeing good photography, it's mediocre photography that bores me..".etcetc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis1 Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 should read: "more than capable of other things OTHER than the occasional put downs and simple comparisons." sorry no coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 <i> I venture to say that there is enough knowledgeable photographers on this forum who can back their opinion with their work </i><p> Being a knowledgeable photographer has absolutely nothing to do with the value of someone's opinion.<p> Anyone who has gone through professional critique knows this, because the best people at it are not photographers. It's only on internet forums and critique sites that this opinion turns up, and it's easy to discredit it.<p> The best opinions come from people who can look at, understand, place in context, and use effective communication skills. These skills have nothing to do with being able to photograph. Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I sympathize with your post, Travis, and I want to back you up on it because it's a reasonable thing to talk about. However, I do think there's a point at which we all need to act like adults and take care of ourselves, and deal with what people have to say. After all, in the real world, people don't always go out of their way to be nice, and that's their right. Sometimes they say what they say because that's simply what they're thinking. Maybe sometimes they should re-examine, and maybe sometimes we should. Film directors, actors, painters, writers, musicians...all of these people complain about critics. The greatest artists and the smallest have always had critics. Criticism is an integral part of the game, and it's important to know how to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis1 Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 Ray, I certainly know full well that at then end of the day, nothing's gonna change much. "People can say what they want..." is always the best explanation out, or the best logical reasoning to give oneself. It trivialises everything. why be someone else when you can be yourself? Unless the you are not who we know... There's no reason to act differently online and offline is what Im saying. WHy put down when you can help or teach or encourage? i see no reasons to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markci Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I'm not in favor of humiliating beginners, necessarily, but when somebody posts a badly exposed, out of focus, misframed picture of their cat, it's hard to know what to say. What leads people to post work like that? What sort of reaction are they expecting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Travis, IMO yours is the road of higher awareness, it's the ideal. Often the same thing can be communicated with courtesy that people think calls for a biting attitude. It's a lack of consideration that can translate to rudeness, I've done it myself. If one makes a deliberate approach to try to understand what brought someone to the place they are, in their work, for example, it can be much more productive. The people who have always impressed me the most in life are those who are both brilliant and kind... they are the rare and real jewels. It's something to aspire to, for me anyway. Now someone is going to accuse of us of conducting a therapy session... hopefully with a sense of humor. If not, then f them... See, I failed already. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_elder1 Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen!This forum should encourage the posting of the best images possible. This statement is consistant with educating the "beginner". My best teachers were never nice or easy when critiquing my photography;that criticism facilitated my continuing improvement in photography. By the way, if you have no digital equipment and no scanning equipment and no interest in getting any, you can't post photos anywhere.Having photos posted has nothing to do with photo critique as eloquently stated buy Jeffry Spirer. If you want to see one of my photos check out this quarters " SHOTS 83" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom h. Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 What is this, a THERAPY SESSION? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 It's how you take it too..... I remember once my painting teacher walked over and painted a flower on this student's painting- to try to make the point to the guy not to treat the thing too preciously. The guy took it as a major insult and ended up I think quitting the class. His thin skin denied him some good education from a great teacher. Of course it depends on your personality what works.... Some of my favorite teachers were gruff and grumpy until you got to know them and came to realize they were just big softies at heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Yeah Tom, in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesrani Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 "However, I think Rob doesn't need to tell himself (!!??!!) how ordinary he and everyone else is ALL the time... -:)" Peter, it just seemed evident to me that Travis had my comments on another thread in mind when he posted this one, so I expanded on them here. Naturally, I would prefer to think that I'm part of a major historic art movement called the LPF at photo.net, but every so often my reality engine splutters into life and I find myself where I actually am. That's all. Now, one is always remembered more for one's occasional brutalities than for one's lengthy silences - but the fact is, I almost never comment on people's pictures. However, I think the CRIT thread idea is a good one and look forward to participating in it. While I am prepared to respect most opinions I disagree with so long as they harm no-one, I find the "everything is just as good everything else" attitude towards photography (or any other endeavour, for that matter) incomprehensible and repugnant. But no doubt it is a valuable part of the basic theme of mutual reassurance we are familiar with from this forum and TV soaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis1 Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 I guess we all wanna be Salgado, HCB or Ansel or Elliot one day. That's when we separate ourselves from the rest? Perhaps also, some people don't need that separation? IMO, I hate to see photography being chased upon like a ratrace to reach the summit of some sort. There! you're now a good photographer etc... AS much as I appreciate everyone of us trying to improve onself artistically, we surely can do it in a more educative and good-spirited manner. A straight cut "you are good!" or "your are mediocre!" is hardly the way to go about it. It's not like a soccer team where perfomance at the end of the season counts and a measure of its ability (good or mediocre). Photography, being an expression is sometimes, IMVHO, hard to measure. Please tell me a photographer's work to look at so I can measure up to him one day, or just let us be, expressing ourselves. But why is it so important to be a good photographer in other's eyes? Has anyone answered that yet?;) ROb, I look forward to more projects from you and your experience as a Doc PJ. When is your next pdf file coming up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesrani Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 "But why is it so important to be a good photographer in other's eyes? Has anyone answered that yet?;)" Because the only place you _can_ be good at anything is in other peoples' eyes, in the sense that what is good or bad is a matter of agreement about standards. Of course, those standards can change or be changed, but without the agreement and a constant dialogue with agreed values there is nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 nothing aint such a bad thing....try it sometime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Because the only place you _can_ be good at anything is in other peoples' eyes, Quite happy with my own eyes, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprouty Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 <I>"Quite happy with my own eyes, thanks.</I> <P> No disrespect intended Allen, but I have to ask then why are you here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Prouty Flame, cool. I like prouting; you understand...that's why you chose the handle 'prouty'.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 No disrespect intended Stephen;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug herr Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Travis wrote: <I>I guess we all wanna be Salgado, HCB or Ansel or Elliot one day.</I><P> I would hope not. I can't speak for others on this forum but I'd rather be known for a unique way of photographing what I see rather than for following the lead of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I'd rather be known for a unique way of photographing what I see rather than for following the lead of others. A thought from a real photographer; not a worshipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprouty Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Actually Allen I wasn't flaming you, I was merely asking what you get out of this forum. Believe it or not it was a serious question. As for the name, well I'm not a trucker so I don't use a "handle". Prouty just happens to be my surname, it sorta came along with my father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis1 Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 Douglas wrote: "I would hope not. I can't speak for others on this forum but I'd rather be known for a unique way of photographing what I see rather than for following the lead of others." ..which is why I hate a ratrace, if any,..to reach somewhere. It'a all in your mind I guess, what you wanna do and when you wanna do it...and how you wanna do it. Which is why I say it's hard to measure mediocrity and similarly, goodness or greatness wrt photography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I was merely asking what you get out of this forum. You should work that out for yourself. Myself, fun, and that bit of magic... that freedom of expression creates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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