Non-large format and personal

[martin_reekie]

I�ve not been involved in this forum for long but in the past few

weeks there seems to have been a number of threads, and more

disturbingly replies, that have little or nothing to do with large

format photography. In many cases some of the replies have been

pretty embarrassing, bitter and twisted personal comments. In the

main they are not funny, not intelligent and not beneficial.

 

I enjoy visiting to see what being talked about, ignore what doesn�t

interest me, learn from what does and contribute where I think I can.

Be nice to keep it that way.

[donald_miller1]

Martin,

 

I agree with your impression of what you have found here. I have experienced the same level of interaction on the three forums that I observe on occasion. (B&W Film, B&W Printing, and Large Format). I have long felt that most professionals have a humble and helpful attitude. For the life of me I don't understand why it doesn't exist to a larger extent here.

[rod_parry]

Gentlemen

I disagree, apart from a guy wanting cd covers and the mr shell saga ,

(well at least i know who he is now)

oh and this post seems to be a bit off topic, but that's life ,otherwise

large format chemistry and engineering take a front seat, maybe thats just what i noticed anyway.

[bruce watson]

I think it's the nature of the beast. That is, a written formum posting. Very similar to email.

 

People will write the darnest things in email. Stuff they would never say on the phone, and certainly not in person. I suspect this is due to the lack of feedback - there's no tonal inflection of voice, no body language. There are no clues that the writer is offending anyone. The only restraint therefore is that of the writer. People who don't work in the medium a fair amount haven't developed the required restraint. It's sort of like when a pre-schooler goes off into potty talk.

 

On top of that, you the readers are generally strangers. You don't know the writer. You have no context with the writer. You have no reason to make allowances for the writer's style. A business associate of the writer might get one of the emails that offends you, and just blow it off knowing that the writer just got reamed by his boss, for example. But how would you know about that?

 

Bottom line, it's a communication problem. Writers need to learn how to sanitize what they write so that a stranger can understand what they are trying to say. Readers need to learn how to read the content, and filter the extraneous.

 

That said, we should all celebrate the technology that lets a stranger ask a question to the ether, and get a number of answers from people they have never met. This forum is one of the great examples of how networking technology improves people's lives, IMHO.

[brian_ellis3]

Welcome to the internet. It was then, is now, and forever will be. I wish it wasn't like that, but it is and messages like yours (which are seen here about once a month) accomplish nothing except to take up space. Sorry to be blunt but if you don't like what you see here, the solution is to not visit here.

 

This actually is by far the most civil of the three photography forums in which I participate. If you think this one is bad, take a look at rec.photo.equipment.35mm. It seems that as the film format gets smaller, the minds follow.

[paul_owen]

Martin, without wishing to sound pompous/weird - large format photography (for me) is almost a way of life!! To this extentI am happy to share the non-photographic experiences/viewpoints (within reason obviously!!)on an occasional basis - I consider this forum a "friend" and to this extent I talk to my (real)friends about all sorts of topics - not just photography!! Sometimes this can be the place to "let off steam" and as long as it is done so occasionally and within reason then I'm okay with that!

[wayne_crider4]

Now...this may sound a little strange....but here recenlty I have noticed alot of

grumpiness just about everywhere. It's like the energy of the planet is haywire

or something. This usually is a pretty civil forum, more than most, and most

often very very helpful. I think I read one thread here where 2 guy's quite in

disgust after flaming someone or getting flamed. ???? what's up with that?

 

I do think tho that the moderators who should be deleting some of the replies

but that's just my opinion. Others will opt for free speech; and sharing it! Come

back and visit often. Buy a 4x5 too.

[robert_cardon]

I agree with Wayne, the genral irritablity level has definatley gone up, along with a corresponding decrease in humor. Everyone is so depserately serious ... and usually about the wrong things. I have no problem with philospophical questions not directly related to LF photography, and if not in the mood, I skip reading the post. Afterall, all this talk of the coverage of this lens or that lens gets a bit tedious.

 

RJ

[matt miller cambridge, ia]

I think it's the heat.

[brian_kennedy]

It's not so much the heat, it's the humidity.

[james_driscoll2]

I only look at two "forums" online and it is this one and

www.V8buick.com (make fun if you want!!!) and these are my

observations.

 

1. On this forum, I have noticed a few people who feel that

because they have donated $25.00 to photo.net, they are allowed

to say whatever they feel, and if they don't like someone's post or

answer, AND that someone has not donated money- they start

complaining about the fact that "(insert bad word) takes up all the

forum space and doesn't donate money"

 

A similar thread appeared recently on the other forum I look at

the answer STRAIGHT from the "owners" of the site was-

 

"This website was set up as a free to all BBS and donations are

welcome, but not a requirement. If we wanted your $25.00 we

would have made it a paysite, and we do not appreciate board

members making other board members feel guilty for not

"donating" money. Afterall, it is a FREE forum."

 

2. There seems to be almost no pettyness on V8buick.com, no

arguements, no namecalling, and no complaining. More people

browse and post on V8buick.com (there are currently over 3000

members, about 1500 "active" posters) Of course, I will point out

there are more people on that site who know each other

personally- or have bought and sold from each other, but it is not

1500 buddies chatting.

 

3.One cannot possibly always have posts regarding "Large

Format" all the time. It is humanly impossible, if that is the way

you want it to be than you must have a one track mind. Now,

don't get me wrong- the empahsis on this board is "Large

Format" and that is the way I (and we) like it, but the occasional

post about humor, or "other" formats, or somebodies kids, or

current events is OK I think.

 

4. If you are going to complain about "bandwith" being taken up-

remove the 3 posts in a row about "Shen-Ho" cameras with a

picture taken from a manufacturer. Or the, "How much coverage

does my noseclamp x-ray lens from 1939 have" Or the long and

tedious arguments about field vs monorails.

 

What also irks me (and takes up BANDWITH) is people who

have no experience with a certain subject chiming in all the time.

I have certain areas of expertise, and so do others and I never

waste people's time giving advice about a subject I know nothing

about. I shoot architecture for a living, and when a question is

asked about that- I give an answer as best to my ability. If

someone asks a question about a certain film, and I don't use it-

I don't post "you should use 160VC because I do and it is

great-why are you bothering with Fuji etc.." There is way more

space and time being wasted by this, than a post by M.Smith

regarding an upcoming workshop.

 

Flame away if you wish, but why bother??? I feel that others on

this board feel the way I do, and I too agree with the person who

said "If you don't like the subject of the post, just skip it."

[lex_jenkins]

I'm paying attention to this thread because, as new moderator/maintainer of the b&w forums, I'm concerned about striking a balance between a cordial atmosphere and healthy debate. (It's particularly topical now on one of those forums, tho' I hope the matter has been satisfactorily resolved in general.)

 

And while I occasionally follow certain threads in the LF forum I rarely post since I haven't used large format in many years. However I'd be remiss in my duties as moderator/maintainer if I didn't avail myself of the information shared by folks like Michael A. Smith, Kerik Kouklis and many others. At the very least I can refer folks from the much more generalized b&w fora to this one where they can get solid information from experience photographers and darkroom masters.

 

I lurk for the content and learning value - there's often as much solid info here on b&w processing issues as to be found anywhere else on the web. So I'm a mere non-enrolled student auditioning the class from the back row. I can't match the expertise of former moderator Ed Buffaloe but I try to be a good student.

[jnanian]

hi martin:

 

to be honest with you, i have almost removed my bookmark to this lf forum a few

times in the last few weeks.

 

hopefully we will get a break from all the heat and humdiity and people will stop

being so nasty ... :(

[ed_candland1]

I have been on this group since before it moved to photo.net. I still very much enjoy it, but I have seen a decline in the manner that some people behave here. And I know some people no longer come here because of it. As far as off topic subjects, I really don't mind one once in a while. I also don't mind opinions from people that aren't experts on the topic as long as they don't try and come across as one. If someone asks for an opinion on a lens for example I might give them my thoughts on what I use and other info on another lens I've heard good things about. But I'm careful to state if the info I'm giving isn't first hand.

 

Ed

[cxc]

One thing that I think would help would be to encourage people to think for 5 seconds before writing their subject lines, making it easier for all of us to focus on what we care about and avoid what we don't.

 

Folks, please don't use subjects like "Newbie Question", or "Am I CRAZY??????". Try a subject that entitles your content, like "How to unjam a Hasselblad?", or "What causes black flecks on my prints?". I'm often tempted to comment with a more useful title, but so far have restrained myself.

 

CXC

[james phillips]

I am in agreement with Paul on this issue.

 

Could it be that Large Format is mostly a solitary venture and as such we all occasionally wish to emerge from our shells? Perhaps this is a place where we can also display our human qualities amongst others with similar interests?

 

Kind regards,

[ralph_barker]

I've been using the Internet for a long time, Martin, and have found that even the best-mannered of places go through cranky cycles, or suffer from the (usually) temporary presence of an individual or two who create havoc. When the tone/cordiality of a forum starts to slip, either the moderator, or someone like you, will comment, and things will tend to get back on track. It's just the nature of the beast, I think.

 

Christopher - good suggestion/reminder about meaningful subject titles. Thanks.

[rob_barker]

Neil and I have removed a few irrelevant and inapropriate posts now, but I seem to detect a slight consensus in favour of being a little more ruthless with the very few contributions that may have been the result of posting before thinking.

 

Our line is very firmly this: Keep it useful and keep it friendly. I, for one, don't want to start getting heavy handed though and too much moderation is just as bad, if not quite a lot worse, than too little.

 

At the end of the day the forum is here for its members. Neil and I are responsive to what we perceive the views of the majority to be. We certainly wouldn't want any of the regular valuable contributors to be scared or bored away by posts that shouldn't be here.

[lbi115l]

Have any of you ever looked at Popular Photography's forums? I stopped reading their magazine after the name and content change, wrote a letter to the editor, and started READING shutterbug instead (as opposed to just browsing).

 

But their forums are outrageous. I still check back every so often, and have become one of the residents answering the few serious questions that are posed there. They are quite juvenile, lots of Nikon vs. Canon debates, lots of bad or wrong answers, lots of flames. I hope that doesn't spill over to the fine community that photo.net has established.

 

However, I feel that the moderators here are doing a good job and will control what happens, as should all of us. This is a privilage and should be a good place for us to foster our creativity and share ideas and advice on the technical side of this great and complex medium that we work in. Those who don't understand this just won't fit in. They will always be on the outside, because of their attitude.

 

When I first got started in medium and then large format, photo.net was immensely helpful. It never would have worked out without the patient, kind advice of my fellow photographers. I feel a sense of community with all of you, and those of you on photo.net who are so helpful. Those who aren't like "us" and just disturb things will hopefully feel that something is missing, and just drift away.

[lbi115l]

"Now...this may sound a little strange....but here recenlty I have noticed alot of grumpiness just about everywhere. It's like the energy of the planet is haywire or something."

 

Hmmm...sounds like Ghostbusters II (i think, maybe I or III) with all of the slime under New York.

 

I for one have nothing wrong with the moderators getting more heavy-handed, or with personal or humorous posts on the forum. We're all (I won't say adults, being 16 myself) mature people. If you don't want to read about someone's trip to somewhere, don't open the post. That's all there is to it.

[jim_rice3]

I, for one, don't think there is too much content on the board. I get up in the morning, read it, come home at night, and read it. I was turned on to artars here. If it wasn't for this board, I wouldn't now own one of these seriously wonderful lenses. The information available to us here is truly astounding (and i got my first 4x5 graphic at the ripe old age of sixteen.....thirty years have passed since then).

 

Do I mind repetative questions? Not really, someone will nudge the asker in the right direction. Do I mind (more or less) off topic questions? Not really (we are among friends). Do I generally appreciate the sence of humor here? (may I take the fifth?) Would someone please tell me how to edit my account so my last name doesn't appear twice? :)

 

I generally tend to lean toward the more open exchange of ideas. I prefer to see more questions posted here than fewer. Just my two cents.

 

*long time lurker, fairly recent poster*

 

-j

[www.graemehird.com]

Jim,

 

Take the "My Workspace" link at the top left of screen, scroll down to the "You, You, You" section and click on "(update the information above)" link. Change your name to Jim in the first box and Rice in the second box.

 

Cheers,

 

Gra Gra

[jim_rice3]

Thanks Graeme.

 

-j

[scott_fleming1]

Not shooting enough. When you try it's so friggin uncomfortable that the activity is FAR from the satisfying experience we want and need thus making us even more irratible. You in the NE will have relief and release soon. Here in Texas although we get spring way before you do ... we get summer for an extra month. @&%*@#$! heat!

[dan_smith]

It is photo.net. Please, PLEASE get the forum to another location. It was so much better before the 'temporary' move.