david_leffen Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I am starting to get interested in mixing my own developers. I haveseveral books with recipes and have searched this forum for an answerto this question. My motivation is not primarily economic in wantingto try non commerical developers, but I would prefer pay less ratherthan more for chemicals. I've noticed that sodium sulfite is used ingreater proportion than most other chemicals. Several posts havealluded to buying sodium sulfite from other than specific photographicsuppliers, but I have not succeeded in finding it locally. It isapparently used as a preservative in food processing and should beavailable, but where?? Several threads mention sodium carbonate(washing soda) and borax but no brand names or suggested sources havebeen given for sodium sulfite. I am aware that I can buy it fromPhotographers Formulary but I was hoping for a cheaper alternative. Please advise. Thanks, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_oconnor2 Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Look at thishttp://www.digistar.com/rollei/2002-11/0407.html This avoids sodium sulfite, the most expensive part of developers...Order the 10gm of Phenidone from Photogrpahers Formulary and make enough developer for the next year...Borax is a box of '20 mule team borax' from the supermarket - about three bucks...Vitamin C is the powdered calcium ascorbate from the supermarket or the health food store...Gainer has an article at the Unblinking Eye web site on alternative formulas for ascorbate developers... Cheers ... Denny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan_w. Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 If you're interested in sodium sulfite, there are a few "hobbyist supply" places out there that will sell it to you -- Chemistry Store comes to mind (www.chemistrystore.com). That said, I second Dennis' advice. The formula in the link he provides is one incarnation of the Gainer vitamin C developer. These developers require no sodium sulfite. I'm sure Nicholas Twist will be along soon to provide other variants, but they are all based on vitamin C and phenidone and differ in the exact formulation or the nature of the alkali (carbonate, borax, metaborate, alone or in combination, etc.) They are easy to use and the results are excellent (fine grain, good film speed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan_w. Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Sorry -- I should add in response to Dennis' post that calcium ascorbate is generally not an appropriate substitute for ascorbic acid in these formulas. Ascorbic acid should be readily available in powder form at health-food stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholas_t. Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Just don't use Calcium Ascorbate, use normal Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) or the Sodium derivative (with changes to compensate for it's lack of acidity)... Here is the original article, care of <a href="http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/VitC/vitc.html">Unblinkingeye.com</a> <p> Also, there have been some changes, not to the formula, but to formulation, as well as some new developers. These have been compiled as a pdf, which should be available soon, and an upcoming Phototechniques article highlights the new developer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I mix, use and like Vit C/phenidone devs, just can't understand why is sulfite so bad! Hi, Nicholas (-: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholas_t. Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Hi Jorge, I don't think sulphite is bad, there seems to be a few reasons why not to use it:<p> 1- why use something which is not necessary? If it is possible to make a developer without using sulphite then why use it. I know it is used in the food prep industry and is easily available from chemical warehouses. Also, if you can make a developer without going to a chemical supplier then all the better. Metol and Phenidone are really the only chemicals needed to be sourced this way - this is a good thing.<p> 2- I need to check this again, but I have found that using sulphite-free developers with a water stop (using the Ilford film washing technique) is a very good way of stopping development. As you know, minimal sulphite Vit C based developers are surface acting developers, this, combined with a water stop is more than adequate to retard development efficiently. So, this way, two less chemicals are used, sulphite (a chem which needs to be ordered) and some kind of acid, usually acetic (which is dangerous in concentrated form). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Nicholas I use water stop with Vit C, HC-110, Diafine like and ID-62 (paper, lots of alkali). If one doesn't use acid fixers, there's no problem with a fully alkali processing, at least this is the viewpoint of Bill Troop, of Film Cookbook fame. On the contrary, he states it's much more 'archival' - his TF-2, 3, 4 formulas are alkaline fixers. So, one less chemical even in the fixer. But I use sulfite in the fixer - I'm too lazy perhaps to mix a new batch of fixer at each darkroom section, or a new batch of paper dev, etc... Just setting up/disassembing my BathLab is enough! (-: That's why I just loved the long lasting Vit C mix you suggested (it's used in the LaundryLab, where chemicals are mixed, also). As you can see, I have a lot of labs! Take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_leffen Posted October 31, 2003 Author Share Posted October 31, 2003 Thank you everyone for your responses. I checked a few of the web sites recommended and found a somewhat cheaper source of sodium sulfite, but wish I could find it locally due to shipping costs. I'm going to get a copy of the Darkroom Cookbook and study that before I forge forward. Thanks again. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_davis2 Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 If you want real cheap Sodium Sulfite you need to be willing to buy 50kg [100 lb] bags. Even then the amount you'll save over buying some thing like 10lbs won't be massive. For the saving you'll have enough chemical to make for example 500 litres of stock film developer. That's 2500 rolls of film the way I use it. So while the saving sounds nice it ends up being very little per roll of film. For Borax 20 mule team. You want the stuff with no perfume or any other additives. Not that easy to find in the local grocery stores here. For Sodium carbonate try the pool section of the local stores. Read the labels on anything labeled Ph+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_scarpitti Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 You need photo grade sodium sulphite. Get it from Photographer's Formulary in bulk (20lbs or so). Don't attempt to cut costs here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_davis2 Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Get the good stuff. Photo grade is way down the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_scarpitti Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Photo grade is as good as you need for photo work, and there's no point to paying for purer stuff. The point is not to get a worse grade than needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ole_tjugen Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 "Photo grade" is about the same as "Technical grade". The main difference seems to be that TG is ony sold in 50kg sacks, while PG can be had in smaller amounts. Due to some rather irritating trade greements, I usually end up buying "Pro Analysi". That's a lot purer than I need, but at least I avoid having 50kg of Hydroquinone in my darkroom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_davis2 Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Photo grade is the one they tack the obscene price tag on. http://www.genchemcorp.com/products/sodiumsulfitea.shtml It's often less pure then the cheaper stuff from non-photographic suppliers. Anybody ever seen something with a photo label sell for less money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_vas Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 I buy all my stuff from De Muire, and am very happy: http://www.colba.net/~fotochem/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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