Help a 17 year old buy a 35 mm SLR

[douglas_green1]

BS: OK, you use modern, automatic cameras, predominantly in manual mode. Congratulations. Nobody ever said you couldn't. I just said that beginners would be better off NOT doing that. I stand by that advice, and your preference does nothing to alter that. And as for my photos:

 

A) I did not spend tremendous time and effort moving to medium format, only to have the quality advantages of medium format be wiped out during the digitization process. I agree, that it IS possible to digitize them in a manner that would preserve their quality, however I have no reason to incur the costs to do this. I'd rather look at an 8x10 or 16x20 enlargement on fiber-based paper.

 

B) I have no interest nor desire to proliferate my work in the digital domain. You're not my audience, and the internet is not my chosen exhibition area for my images, because of the quality sacrifices involved in any cost effective digitization process. That's a personal preference on my part. I don't shoot for your edification. I shoot for my own, or in the case of work that I do for pay, I shoot for my clients' benefit.

 

and finally, C) My photos, and yours, are irrelevant to the issue of which cameras are better for beginners to learn on. We both started out learning on what we had available many years ago.

[bruce_appel]

Back shooter why all the zeal? My god we just had a kid ask us our opinions on gear for a beginer. Why attack those whose opinions differ from yours?

[brainbubba_motornapkins]

Bruce:

 

You may ask your self the same question...

 

"My objections to the modern, computer marvel, electronic everthying cameras are that one, they are noisy. Two, if the battery dies you now have a paper weight.Three, they are big, heavy and bulky, sort of defeating the idea of a 35 in the first place. Three, they can be way complicated to use. It seems that if you know enough to know what exposure mode you want to use, it is just as easy to set the shutter and f stop apropriately. As an old wanker, I have a number of 50year old cameras that work quite well, thank you very much. And I wonder how many Rebels, ZX-m"s, etc, will still be operattional 50 years from now. Of coarse it won't matter as we will all be using digital :(."

 

You posted this in direct response to my initial post in this thread, recommending that this person consider purchasing a new camera which would be within his budget and meet his stated goal of learning photography. All of your objections to this are red herrings. So why make them in the first place?

 

Welcome to the 21st century, my friend.

[douglas_green1]

Just because we are in the 21st century does not mean that we must subscribe to cameras that "progress" has given us which are in many ways inferior to their predecessors. The older instruments are still easily available, and much cheaper, due to the marketing machinery backing the newer plastic automatic marvels. And unlike those plastic automatic marvels, these 20-30 year old mechanical instruments generally still work at this age.

 

I work in the computer industry. I'm not naive enough to believe that all of the "advances" in computerization have resulted in better products. In SOME cases they have, but in many cases, they have resulted in shoddier products that are far more cheaply made. The REASON that the manufacturers have transitioned toward electronics is NOT due to superiority in the end products. Rather, it is because they ARE far more cheaply manufactured, and economies of production. and the drive to sell new products that are cheaper but more profitable are driving this.

[jbq]

Sean must be wondering what he did to create such a response.

 

So, we've discovered that we don't all like the same kind of camera, that there isn't a single camera that pleases us all (e.g. some want the sturdiness of a metal body, some want the low weight of a plastic body). We've discovered that we're pretty religious about our cameras, about our ways of using them. Big deal.

 

The range of cameras available today is just amazing. In the Nikon range, we can go from a cleap plastic FM10 to a classic-style FM3a with a totally innovative hybrid shutter, from a feather-light crippled N55 all the way to a tank-like F5 with such a meter that you almost have to do it on purpose to get a wrong exposure with it. And there's also the whole range of used cameras. Nobody will argue that an F5 is better built than an FM10, and that an FM3a is better build than an N55.

 

I personally think that it's great that we have such a variety of tools today. 25 years ago, this wasn't the case. As consumers and users, who are we to complain about having too many choices?

 

In the end, all that matters is the final result, the pictures. I personally don't care what camera took a good picture. And I assert that the photographer is what matters most in making a good picture, that a good photographer will manage to do great pictures with any camera, and that a bad one won't manage to do great pictures even with the most advanced camera

 

Oh, and I even say that a low-end all-automatic SLR is still a great camera for snapshooters. My wife manages to take pictures with my N55, but she gets totally confused by my FE.

[cliff_gallup]

On a budget of $400, I'd go to KEH.com and get a used Nikon FE or FE2 in "excellent" condition for mid-$200s. (I'd probably go for the slightly more expensive FE2 because it has TTL flash metering.) I think the best bang for one's 35mm buck is used Nikon MF gear -- there are many great used MF lenses out there for relatively cheap. As a vendor of used equipment, KEH in my experience has been highly reliable, and seems conservative with its ratings. To add to the camera I'd get myself a used, "excellent" condition Micro-Nikkor 55mm 2.8 AIS (a very nice, sharp lens that can be used as a normal lens) or a used, "excellent" condition Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 AIS. Both are very good. Other high quality manual focus used bargains include the 24mm 2.8 AIS, the 28mm 2.8AIS, the 75-150mm Series E zoom, the 105mm f/2.5 portrait lens and the Series E 100mm f/2.8.

[cliff_gallup]

Oops -- sorry, just saw that Sean already bought his camera. At least it was a manual Nikon. I think that's a smart move, because (a) it's a great learning tool, and (b) there are so many great old manual focus lenses for sale at good prices.

 

Remember to use good film and to get it processed at a decent lab (unless you plan to do it yourself).

[bruce_appel]

Backshooter- check your lithium levels dude. I just stated a personal preference, I didn't go out of my way to insult anyone, or say that what anybody else thought was wrong. No invectitude on my part. Try to remember that there are many paths to the Budda, and try and show a little tolerance for those who differ from you.