Help a 17 year old buy a 35 mm SLR

[jbq]

Sean: that FM2 a nice camera. I'd personally go for an FE2 rather than FM2, but it's a matter of personal taste (or I'd look for an FM2n).

 

Don't believe that you've found the ultimate low price and that there'll never be anything better. That's not very likely. Take your time.

[brainbubba_motornapkins]

LOL :-). Get a SHOEBOX, a piece of FOIL and a NEEDLE if you REALLY want to LEARN photography. When I was YOUR age I had to WALK up El CAPITAN in a BLIZZARD every day, CARRYING an 90-POUND view camera CARVED out of solid GRANITE (cont'd p.97)

 

Lighten up, guys. It's the person who takes the pictures, not the camera.

 

Get a camera, any camera, and go take some pictures. You're on your way.

[jbq]

An old "manual" camera will take as good pictures as a new "automatic" camera, as long as it wasn't bent and isn't worn out.

 

Of course the definition of "manual" vs "automatic" is a very fuzzy one. A manual-focus FA has a lot more exposure automation than an auto-focus N2020.

 

A fully manual camera like the FM/FM2 will require you do focus yourself (a very nice feel), but also set the aperture and the shutter speed yourself (with only a little bit of help from the camera). A camera with aperture-priority exposure like an FE/FE2 will still require you to set the aperture, but it'll pick the shutter speed for you. With program modes (like in an FA) the camera will pick both aperture and shutter speed for you. Of course with all those cameras you can always go back to the more "manual" mode. TTL flash metering will allow the camera to do much better flash automation, especially with auto-focus bodies and D-type lenses, but e.g. the auto-focus auto-exposure N55 doesn't offer TTL flash metering.

 

The advantage of a fully manual camera is that it forces you to think about all the aspects of photography, which puts you in control. The disadvantage of a full manual camera is that it forces you to think about all the apsects of photography, which can sometimes be slow or tedious, and get in the way of creativity.

 

The advantage of a full-automatic camera is that it lets you concentrate on compositition, or lets you take pictures quicker. The disadvantage is that manual functions are not always as easy to use, and that manually focusing an auto-focus lens (especially a zoom) with a matte screen doesn't have the ease or the smoothness of a manual-focus lens with a split-prism/microprism screen.

[ecarter]

<i>I have heard alot of people say the body isn't all that important. What is the difference between a completly manual camera and a camera that has both modes auto/manual? Does either take better pictures? How much better/important is it that your camera is metal as opposed to plastic? -------I am really confused right now. I am reading so many different things, and alot of the advice contradicts itself. I can understand why a "manual camera" would be better. I also understand why metal is better. But do these "old" cameras take as good pictures as the new modern snazzy ones?</i>

 

<P>There's a lot to recommend an older, manual camera system to a beginner who is learning photography. Mostly, this is because they encourage the photographer to think for himself rather than allowing the camera to decide exposure for you. The onboard automatic systems in most modern cameras are good and working out the technically correct exposure, but not necessarely the "right" exposure for the look you want. While it is true that you can set a modern camera in "manual" mode and use it that way, the extra controls and steps you have to go through to this don't always make using manual mode easier. The more complicated they make the camera, the more mental gymastics you have to go through to use it. There isn't anything necessarely wrong with this of course - once you learn it, it may work just as well for you - but it does mean that you're going to spend more time learning the camera rather than learning photography. Also, many older manual cameras are smaller and easier to handle - my OM-2s is tiny compared to, say, a Nikon N80.

 

<p>When used properly, an older manual camera can take photographs every bit as good as a new wonderbrick camera body. Don't worry about that.

 

<p>The other thing to be concerned with, whether you get an old manual camera or a newer wonderbrick, is how durable the camera is and how much wear from use it can take. I'm always a little worried about plastic camera bodies, especially if the camera has a plastic lens mount. A metal body is more likely to shrug off a drop or a bang without any real damage than a plastic body - and I'd always be worried about a bad break with a plastic lens mount, especially if you ever get to using heavier longer lenses which stress the mount.

 

<p>If you need to go to something fancier later, that's fine - but I'd encourage anyone learning to start with a solid basic manual camera.

 

<p>BTW - The FM2 is, from what I've heard from a friend of mine who's got one, is a good solid camera. Never used one myself. Good luck.

[gib]

an automatic camera that permits manual focus sometimes is not as easy to view through and focus manually than a manual focus body camera.

 

FG a Nikon body that is metal, allows two auto modes and is also full manual....also allows TTL flash with Nikon Speedlights.

 

Nikon 8008s has slower autofocus but has an excellent manual focus viewfinder feel, at least to me.

 

FM, FM2, FM2N, all good manual Nikon bodies. I have th FM and the FM2. The 50mm Nikkor 1.8 or 2.0 lenses are good. You will need the AI or AIS versions.

 

I am not a big fan of the Canon EOS system, long story.

 

If you want great optics and an older manual camera. Pentax Spotmatics and screwmount lenses....very inexpensive because not much liked due to slight inconvenience of the system....but for the dollars, tremendous value for the buy.

[david_h._hartman]

Rather than buying a cheap plastic auto-wonder consider a

Canon AE-1, Pentax ME Super or Nikon FM2. Get a 50/2.0, 1.8 or 1.7

and use it for a while. Save your money and get a 105/2.5 or 135/2.8

then a 24/2.8, 28/2.8 or 35/2.0.<br>

<br>

Rather than a camera bag consider a waist pack with space for

three lenses. Have lens caps ready for all lenses. Take the lens

off the camera cap it and put it way. Take the next lens out

uncap it and put it on the camera. This eliminates the need for a

third hand.<br>

<br>

Here is an article you might like to read<br>

<br>

<a

href="http://www.vothphoto.com/spotlight/articles/forgotten-lens.htm"

target="_new"><u>Article: The Forgotten Lens</u></a><br>

<br>

Why hobble on crutches when you can walk with confidence? Most

learn little with a cheap, slow, kit zoom and cumbersome camera

interface. <br>

<br>

Hope this helps,

[jbq]

Sean: Why not try for yourself? If you're in the San Francisco area, I'd gladly spend a day with you so that you can play around with both a manual and an automatic Nikon (I have an N55 and an FE with half a dozen assorted lenses, including the 28-80G, 70-300G, 50/1.8D and a 50/1.4MF)

[ecarter]

Looks like you've got yourself a FM2, congrats and have fun with it.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"I'd personally go for an FE2 rather than FM2, but

it's a matter of personal taste (or I'd look for an FM2n)."

-- Jean-Baptiste Queru<br>

</em><br>

Both of these are excellent cameras. Many prefer the FE2 for

general use as it has TTL flash and the FM2n for low light

photography without flash as it has a match diode meter reading.

I only wish I could recommend both. The FE2 adds aperture

preferred auto exposure but I normally use mine in manual mode. <br>

<br>

A kit I like to carry is a 55/2.8 AIS Micro, 105/2.5 AI or AIS

and 24/2.8 AI or AIS. In the evening or indoors Ill switch

the 55/2.8 for a 50/1.8 AI or AIS.<br>

<br>

Regards,

[sean_manning]

Wel guys I bought a Nikon FM2 off of ebay that comes with a 50/f 1.4 Lens included for 270.00 w/shipping. I think I got a pretty good deal. One problem I realized afterwards is that there is no manual, which is not optimal. Hopefully I can find one on ebay or somewhere online. Do you recommend that I buy anything else now, besides film? How important is a case/claning products and stuff like that? Also, any good books out there? Right now I'm just planning on going to amazon and picking up a couple of the best selling photography books.

Iam excited and thanks for all the help and money saved from buying the generationX plastic box.

[sean_manning]

Another of my ebay bids actually went through.

So now I have two cameras. I figure I will test them both and then simply re-sell the one which satisfies me least- or simply keep both.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dllViewItem&item=2939306898&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:US:6

[mskovacs]

<p><a href="http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonfmseries/fm2n/fm2manual/">Try here for a manual.</a>

<p>Is this camera an FM2 or FM2n? The picture is too small for me to see a red 125 or 250 on the dial.

[mskovacs]

By the way...I think you got a fair deal on the FM2 + lens. Head on to the photo.net Nikon forum to meet your new family :)

[david_h._hartman]

Here are a couple of links to help with the lack of a manual<br>

<br>

<a

href="http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonfmseries/fm2/index.htm"

target="_new"><u>Modern Classic SLRs Series: Nikon FM2(n) - Index

Page</u></a><br>

<br>

<a

href="http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonfmseries/fm2n/fm2manual/index.htm"

target="_new"><u>Nikon FM2(n) - Instruction Manual - Index Page</u></a><br>

<br>

Congratulations!

[chuck_greene]

Sean,

 

Congratulations! The FM2 is a good camera, I have an FM2n in addition to my N90s and my wife's N65. Take care of it and if you get tired of shooting on manual all of the time you can probably sell it for what you paid for it.

[gib]

Sean, congratulations, one thing about the 50 f1.4, is that in low light situations it will be a greater help for focusing than one of the zooms that were discussed.

 

The only caveat with a 50mm is that you cant really do a head shot without creating a pinocchio effect, not that they turn to wood but that the nose gets elongated, its an optical thing. waist to head shots work well.

 

for the head shots, the 105mm length is good.

 

regards

Bill

[michael_bradigan]

"do I need anything else?"....yeah, go out and buy a decent tripod, the most solid you can afford/are willing to carry, and a circular polarizer filter...two of the best things to have with any camera. Good luck Sean. You might also want to pick up a few good books on photography, I would recommend John Shaw's Nature photography Fieldguide or Brian F. Peterson's Understanding Exposure...especially the SHaw book. Good luck and above all, have fun!

[bobar57]

Good choice. For starter, I will recomend the Bogen/Mannfrotto Tripod 3405 Jr. , it comes with the 3 ways head already incorporated and quick release plate. Good and solid tripod for the money. Good starter one. I just got one. It cost only 94.00 at B&H and Adorama.Any Bogen/Manfrotto(w/o) the head is not less than 200.00 aprox., so is a good deal. It is solid and heavy, good signs of quality and that you will need to eliminate camera shake.Regarding the polarizer filter you don't need a circular one(too expensive). Since you have a manual camera and you will be focusing manually( and I understand that your lens is manual also)you need only a linera or common polarizer filter.

[hugh_t]

BLAH BLAH BLAH, I'm so sick of these you have to get a manual camera to learn photography. Rubbish from a bunch of wankers. Photography is more about composition than setting manual aperatures, shutter speeds, and manual focusing. Get the N80 or the Canon equivilant set that bugger on auto and fire away. When you don't get the images you desire override the auto settings tell you get what you want.

[arnabdas]

Hugh T: "BLAH BLAH BLAH, I'm so sick of these you have to get a manual camera to learn photography. Rubbish from a bunch of wankers."

 

-- The above comment notwithstanding, I'd recommend an FM2n or an FM3A. I learnt on a Pentax K1000 given to me by my Dad and I know the simplicity of that camera helped me focus on the fundamental aspects of photography.

[bobar57]

Maybe those "wankers" represent to you an inferiority complex.

Maybe you can't get it right with a manual camera. Too much for your brain?

If phothography is all about composition, why then are so many books in print, writtens by famous photographers, that deals with more than composition ....and by the way have a lot to do with manual cameras?

Why courses for beginers are with manual cameras?

Composition?...Any artist, a painter knows composition.

A Hihg School student is teached composition.

Does that make them phothographers?

An example: My daugther is in Collegue. She knows about composition. Any young person today is smart with electronics. you give her any cell phone, she doesn't read the manual and in less than 1/2 an hour is completelly programmed. Cameras are far easier. Will that make her a photographer?

Get a grip of reallity and stop your BLAH,BLAH. Save in a dark hole of your body, maybe swallow it back ;).

[bj_bignell]

Sean,

 

Despite what anybody says here (or in any forum), the best camera you can own - especially when learning - is the camera that you enjoy working with most. If a camera fits right in your hands, you can comfortably control it (manual or electronic control!), and you are pleased with the pictures it produces, you have the right camera.

 

If one day you want to be a professional, then you can take some serious time to do some serious comparisons of Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax, Contax, etc etc etc...

 

Good luck with your new camera(s), and with your travels.

 

BJ

[basscheffers]

Well said, BJ!

 

On that I would like to note though, that although you can go all manual with the cheap plastic ones, unless you go for at least a Canon Elan 7 (EOS 30/33) you only have one dial to control both with, which would anoy the hell out of me. Even when shooting aperture priority, the second wheel at least lets me do exposure compensation.

 

The FM2 is a great camera, good choice and enjoy!

[jbq]

Hugh, I know exactly how you feel, yet I don't think it's a reason to insult people. Anyway, no problem here.

 

Arguing that the only way to learn "photography" is to start with a full-manual camera is like arguing that the only way to learn computers is to start with low-level programming.

 

I know some great computer users who don't even have the slightest clue about how a computer works, and I am convinced that there can be some great photographers who have no clue about how a camera works. This was prtty much impossible 30 years ago (get a computer manual from the 70s if you're not convinced, the manual of the Xerox Alto for non-programmers is a great example, and that was an amazingly "user-friendly" computer).

 

I also know some computer users who have some serious misconceptions about computers, yet manage to get the work done.I know some very advanced programmers who have lost track of (or even disdain) what most users do with computers, yet write the applications that most people use. I am convinced that the same kind of people exist in the photographic world.

 

There's nothing wrong with being in either category of people, but just remember than not all people are like you, and remember that the tools available now aren't the same tools as were available 30 years ago.

[steven_clark]

I say buy older. All you really need is something with metering and either shutter or aperture priority, overideable for exposure compensation orholding. For me it was a Canonet viewfinder my dad bought years ago.