marc_schmidtmayer Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Hi, For school, I need to photograph a white bottle with one lightsource (studio ... no flash). Photo must be printed 8x10 inches. My question : I need a film and developer which give a photo with the minimum on grain and a good (or excellent) sharpness. Has anyone good some tips for me ? ISO is not really of a matter because I can use a tripod. For my first film, I tried a APX 100 film developed in Rodinal 1 + 50 for 13 minutes. Maybe it has to do something with my technique ... but I did get a LOT of grain ! So ... any tips ? At the moment I've got following developers at disposition : - Rodinal - Xtol - Atomal Films I can get at my local store : - APX 100 - Efke 50 - MACO UP 25 Plus - MACO UP 100 Plus - ACROSS 100 - DELTA 100 - TMAX 100 So, even if you suggest another combo ... please react to this topic and help me out ! Thanks, Marc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conrad_hoffman Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Ditch the Rodinal and use Xtol or D-76/ID11. Don't overdevelop or overagitate. Stay at the nominal temperature of 68 or 70F. You can use TMX for maximum resolution and no visible grain, but the overall effect might be better with any slow conventional film. Long ago at RIT they made us print everything 11x14. I think that was to convince us to shoot 4x5 and not torture ourselves trying to get the last possible bit of quality out of 35mm, but you can get very good results if you're careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mostly sports Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 You never stated a format requirement. The assumption is that you must use 35mm? Most of those sharp, grainless photos you see in slick adds are done with medium format. A fine grained film in 6X7 should do it. You have to use 35mm? Shoot Ilford Pan F 50, and develop in Xtol as suggested. Rodinal has nice acutance and tonality, but it's grainy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry_kenstler Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Marc, Efke 50 and APX 100 have similar sized grain. I believe Maco UP 100 Plus is very much like or the same as EFKE 100. This film has slightly larger grain than APX 100. It has been claimed that MACO UP 25 Plus is very much like or the same as EFKE 25. This film has very fine grain that is noticeably finer than APX 100. Delta 100 has slightly finer grain than APX 100 and ACROS 100 and TMAX both have grain slightly finer than Delta 100. The three finest grain films are Acros, TMAX 100, and Maco UP 25 Plus. They all have similar sized grain. I have no direct experience with Atomal and there have been several different Atomals produced. I have used Calbe A49 which is the old DDR equivalent for Atomal. Atomal should give the finest grain and Xtol should be a close second. Xtol will produce sharper images than Atomal. Rodinal produces a high apparent sharpness, but the grain is not very fine as you have observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_smith4 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Pan F in D-76 1:1 would probably be one of the better choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_goldfarb Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 T-Max 100 in D76 (1+1) will give you a smooth look, but the real answer is to move to a larger format, if grain and sharpness are your main concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger krueger Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Kodak Technical Pan, 20 minutes in Photohrapher's Formulary TD-3, gives EI 50-64. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 APX 100 is an inherently sharp film in my experience. Lovely tonality too. I'd be inclined to stick with it and try another developer, something like Microdol-X or Perceptol. Even ID-11/D-76 at 1:1 or HC-110 would be good choices for fine grain and good sharpness. At the opposite extreme would be T-Max 100 which is a very high resolution film but with lower apparent sharpness because it lacks acutance in most developers. It also is virtually grainless in a developer like ID-11/D-76. Develop it in Rodinal and you'll have high apparent sharpness while retaining reasonably fine grain. Those would be my choices for this type of still life assignment. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_curry Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Hi Marc, You can have both, sharp and no grain! In 35mm try Efke 25 @ asa 12 (from JandC Photo). Develop in PMK pyro for 7:00 at 70f. Use distilled water, agitate every 15 seconds, water stop, TF4 fix for 5:00. I have used this combination for a portrait with good results. Although it was a cropped 35mm shot, at 8X10 it was still smooth and showed no sign of grain. It should work especially well with a white subject and studio lighting. Hopefully you can use a dark background to show off the crisp edges. The Efke 25 is a very contrasty film. PMK will hold detail, even in the whites. The edges will be clearly delineated. You may not have enough time to try this combination for your project, but at some point it may be worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0002a Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 I would recommend Delta 100 with XTOL 1:1 dilution among the choices you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_schmidtmayer Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 People, Thanks for your explanation and advice. If I summarize (until now) and take in consideration the films and developers which I know and which I could get then are these my options : - Ilford Pan F50 with XTOL or D-76 (1:1) - TMAX 100 with D76 (1:1) - DELTA 100 with XTOL (1:1) - APX 100 with D76 or HC-110 - ACROSS 100 with XTOL or ATOMAL The combination that Tim (Efke 25 @ asa 12 in PMK pyro) and Roger (Kodak Technical Pan in Photohrapher's Formulary TD-3) suggested is 'hold back' until the project is finished and I have time to find some of these developers and try things out ... The other combinations are with films and developers I know and which I can get easily ... now it's up to me deciding which combination to start with ... and advise is still welcome ! Thanks, Marc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_schmidtmayer Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 Sorry ... forgot something ... About the format requirement ... it must be done with 35mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartMoxham Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I hope that the idea of this project was not that you should try different developers and see the results for yourself otherwise you just did your self out of a valuable experience. You should try different combinations sometime so you get a feel for for different films and developers find one you like and stick with it for 20 or so films or more.<br>As for your question I like the following for finer grain.:- PAN F in D76 1:1, FP4 in D76 1:1, TMAX100 in Rodinal 25:1 is also quite fine I have not tried it in D76 yet.<br>APX100 in D76 1:0 is a little more grainy than FP4 in D76 1:1 but seems sharper.<br>APX 100 in paterson ACUTOL is a nice combination too.<br>Kodak Techpan is supposed to be the finest grained film but I can't remember what to develop it in. I tried rodinal a 100:1 or something but I never got great results and it was far to slow for my likeing.<br>My personal experience of APX 100 in rodinal was very positive I always used rodinal at 25:1, 1 min aggitation at the begining and 3 invertions every 30 seconds for the rest of the time. I would say the grain was visible in the prints but not objectional.<br> Hope this helps you, if I had to choose one combination for fine grain and sharpness and I could use a tripod I would choose PAN F in D76 1:1.<br>Cheers....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_waller Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I'd suggest TMax 100 at 50 ASA in Rodinal 1:50, 20 C, 6.5 minutes. That's for a condenser head. For a diffuser head give it 7.5-8 minutes APX 100 is rather grainy for a 100 ASA film although I like its tonality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric rose Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Also give one of the chromogenic B&W films a try. Ilford XP2 or CN400 are good choices. Virtually no grain and very sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward_zimmermann Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 If ultimate low grain and highest sharpeness are the goal then I'd suggest for that white bottle you look to something Agfa Ortho 25 and a bit of special processesing. 1:100 Rodinal can deliver excellent results. You local source may have some AgfaOrtho-25 but since its document film it'll be hidden in other places... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominic_. Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I think Pan-F in D76 or ID-11 would give the best results. I haven't tryed MACO or ACROSS films but anything slow should be fine. Personally I like to stay away from TMAX but each has his(or her) own preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank.schifano Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 You can also use TMax 100 and XTOL for the effect you want. It will be quite similar to the results you'd obtain with that film in D-76/ID-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_schmidtmayer Posted September 30, 2003 Author Share Posted September 30, 2003 Again thanks for your help ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_ilomaki Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Marc Try Ilford XP2, the chromogenic film developed in C 41 colour chemistry. I have MANY 16 x 20 prints that are creamy smooth with no visible grain and are dangerously sharp. Cheer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now