Rodinal and TriX NEW questions

[wolfgang_gressmann]

I am finally ready to bath my TriX in Rodinal. I have a few

questions:

 

1. What is the minimum quantity of Rodinal, regardless the dilution,

per 35mm film)?

 

2. What is the best combination of film rating /I prefer 200 ASA)

and dilution (1:25/1:50/1:100) for finest grain/best tonality/ best

sharpness?

 

3. Temperature and agitation for point 2.?

 

Thank you all inadvance for your help!

[lex_jenkins]

First, so far I see no differences between old and new 35mm Tri-X in the developers I normally use (ID-11, Rodinal, Ilfosol-S, Microphen, Diafine) in terms of exposure indices or development times. The only difference I do see is that in Rodinal the new Tri-X has significantly more bright purplish dye residue that comes out with the exhausted developer, much as with T-Max films.

 

Opinions and experiences vary regarding the minimum quantity of Rodinal in solution. I've read claims that as much as 1 liter per roll is needed. Frankly, I use the minimum needed to cover the reel, regardless of dilution (including up to 1:500) and have never experienced a failure that was due to local exhaustion. In my single reel 35mm stainless tank that's as little as 275ml total solution; in a plastic reel/tank system as little as 325ml, tho' I prefer to use a bit more total solution with the latter for other reasons.

 

I've never rated Tri-X lower than EI 250. At EI 250-320 in Rodinal at 1:50 the tonality and sharpness are excellent. Grain is very noticeable tho'. I wouldn't use this combination for prints larger than 5x7 from 35mm negatives unless I specifically wanted the grain for aesthetic reasons.

 

I develop at room temperature, which can go as high as 80°F in my darkroom during summer months, and adjust times accordingly. I hesitate to advise specific times because so many variables are involved, including the well water I use.

 

I've used many agitation techniques with Rodinal, ranging from every 30 seconds to every minute to modified stand development with agitation every few minutes to true stand development with no agitation, other than for the first 30-60 seconds, for as long as a full day. If you want reliable results use standard agitation techniques. Everything else is a gamble.

[evan_parker]

I routinely dilute Rodinal 1:50 and use it in 14oz of solution, and I've never seen any problems. I rate Tri-X at 400 right now, and the results seem fine, but I'm thinking of pulling the film a bit as this is what the general consensus seems to think is the best thing to do.

[sam_portera]

I rate Trix at 320 and process 1+50 @ 68F for 13 minutes. 8ml of Rodinal in 408ml of water. I have tried it at other dilutions and 1+50 seems to give me the best results. There is of course noticable grain but its not objectionable for most of my subject matter. I find the grain too much for portraits where 11x14's are to be made. I use Trix in Rodinal for everthing execpt portraits . Pan F or Xp2 for portraits.

[gareth_harper]

I've heard figures of between 6 and 10ml per roll mentioned.

Only used it at 400asa and 1/50 so far.

Always try and process at 20 degree C, but with Ayrshire hitting up to 30 degrees C this week If I have to go out and shoot for quick results it'll be XP2 and into the mini lab for me.

Anyway have a look at http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005bHW to help you get firther confused

 

Also http://www.photo.net/photo/1650022&size=lg for my last tri-x print of which I was very happy with the tonality.

[chris_waller]

1. I dev in Rodinal at 1:50 in a Paterson tank which requires 290 ml to cover a reel, but I use 300 ml to make the arithmetic easier. Thus I use 6 ml of Rodinal per reel.

 

2. I always use Rodinal at 1:50 to get longer, thus more controllable, development times. Ratings/times (at 20 C) as follows:- Tri-X, 160 ASA, 8 minutes.

 

3. Four inversions in the first 30 seconds, then one inversion every 30 seconds after that. If I want increased compensation the I reduce to one inversion per minute.

[david_nebenzahl]

I suppose you have your reasons for wanting to use this combination, but my question to you would be: why? Especially since you mention "finest grain" as one of your goals.

 

I know it's not exactly the same, but my first Rodinal experience was with Ilford HP5+ developed at 1:100. All I can say is that the results were <b>horribly</b> grainy; probably unacceptable to most people, unless you're after some kind of "impressionist" effect.

 

If you want fine grain, don't use Rodinal. It has other qualities (like actuance), but fine grain ain't one of them.

[couleurnoir]

Rodinal is not a "grainy" developper nor a "fine grain" one. It justs sits here and does not touch the emulsion's grain. Thus a fine grained film like TP in Rodinal will leave the grain almost invisible while the grainy tri-x will stay grainy. The good thing is that i like - should i say, love - Tri-x's grain and Rodinal does not modify it.

 

One other nice thing of Rodinal is the compensating effect and the ability to get rid of burned highlights easily when dilutions go higher than 1+50. At 1+50 the effect is here but it increases a lot as dilution goes up.

 

I usually develop TX films between 1+60 and 1+80, depending on the contrast of the lighting. I have played with rodinal diluted from 1+25 to 1+100 for TX. Acutance was strong in 1+100, but the neg was definitively too flat.

 

I usually write down some notes regarding the contrast found on each exposed film using small pictograms. developping film is a very personnal style and each printer has its own choices. I use to print with a direct-light condenser and a strong bulb which makes pretty contrasty prints so I like avoiding too much contrast in my negs. I also like dense negatives still with lots of highligh detail thanks to the compensating effect.

 

I expose tri-x between iso 250 and 400 depending on the available lighting and the way I intend it to be like. I also use to push tri-x up to iso 1600 using the 2-bath Emofin developper from tetenal, which I had pleasant results with. Emofin also has a nice compensating effect and you won't get blocked highlights with it.

 

An example of development I would do for a tri-x film shot at 320 under a sunny day, outdoor would be like 1+70, 15min at 21°C (the coldest water i can get most of the year). This recipe yields dense negs with a full tonal range though, very nice midtone separation and great acutance. Highligh detail is here, as is the nice tri-x grain. This combo yields consistant results and gives a good classic look to your prints that is quite pleasant I find.

 

However please note that TXP is a totally different film, which has also a very nice grain (I think I prefer it over TX for the grain) but I personally don't like the curve, with good highlight detail but lack of midtones. When I use it, though, I use to choose dilutions between 1+45 and 1+55 depending on contrast (for TXP).

 

As for minimum quantity of developper required by film, I have tested higher dilutions with as low as 4ml/film and still get good results. I would not go below 3ml/film personally.

 

I happen to work with TP, diluting between 1+120 and 1+140 in 500ml of water, thats as low as 3.5ml/film. But I agree TP is a very specific film and such high dilutions are not suitable for the common film.

 

Another very nice thing about Rodinal is the low cost : 4EUR here for 500ml wich usually allows for about 100 films processed.

 

Hope all these numbers can help you and this is not too messed up with my bad english, I believe you can guess now that I especially like TX in Rodinal. This combo is a classic one and I think it will be for a long times....as long as TX and Rodinal sells ! It has for quite a long time for both, so I'am confident !

[couleurnoir]

<IMG SRC="http://fr.mine.nu/beach.jpg">

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I'll add to my previous comment my agitating technique : I use to agitate more at the beginning and less at the end : usually starting development with 8-10 inversions, then 5 and 4. 3 inversions for the following minutes till the end ; 2, 1, and the last two minutes without inversion. I found I seemed to get better tonal ranges with this method, but again, this is totally personal.

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Here is a sample pic scanned from a glossy RC work print made from a typical TX neg. The neg has detail all over the image.

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I usually tend to shoot facing the sun (I really like it) so I often deal with contrasty scenes ! I usually print all my negs between grade 1.5 and 2.5.

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Regards,

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TG.