What's up with the new AGFA APX films?

[fred_clerc1]

So I just bought a batch of new Agfa APX 400, and to my surprise, the

developing times with Rodinal have changed! Acording to the APX box, it's

now 10 minutes, however the Rodinal notice says 8 minutes. The time has

changed for the APX 100 as well. So, what's the deal? Anyone knows?

[nicholas_t.]

Regarding the new times for APX 400.<br>

You tell us whether the film has changed! I have tried to find out whether this is new or the old film (with a new developing time) from people here on Photonet or the rec.photo.darkroom groups (as well as from Agfa) but noone will do a test. Noone can be bothered it seems. I would do the tests but we don't have the new APX 400 stock in NZ yet. New films are apparently in the new style boxes.<p>

According to Ralf B. from Agfa, it is a new film with improved resistance to scratching. I am sceptical of this and think perhaps Agfa are getting their film developing times in line with each other. Or both, new coating on film and a re-alignment of developing times.<br>

I say this because for years Agfa have been giving us slightly higher developing times for APX 100 over 400. I always got the opposite, longer times for 400 over 100 (as is the norm with most 400 films). This readjustment would then rectify this apparent anomoly and give both films the high gamma development Agfa recommends<p>

Regarding APX 100<br>

Apparently the APX 100 film has not changed at all. Even in the new box.<br>

[barry_kenstler]

Fred,

 

I recently read a press release in a trade journal that indicated that Agfapan 400 had been upgraded/changed to use the same type of technologies that had previously been applied to the 25/100 APX lines. I got the impression from the piece that the changes were not an overhaul of the emulsion, but a manufacturing improvement to something like coating and hardening. I thought APX 100 was unchanged. I have not checked the Agfa Website;there may some info there.

[john_stockdale2]

The Agfa pdf called F-PF-E2_EN.pdf shows data for the "old" APX400. It's dated year 2002.

 

The corresponding file for year 2003, F-PF-E3_EN.pdf shows data for the new APX400. For batches including and after 260 for rollfilm 120, and 450 for 35mm, if I'm reading it correctly. The gamma-time curve for APX400 in Rodinal is TOTALLY different. In Rodinal 1+25 it maxes out at gamma=0.675 after about 20 minutes, whereas in the old pdf at 12min that contrast is reached and it goes up and up from there. I'll try to insert the relevant graphs as images here.

[john_stockdale2]

Excerpts from Agfa pdf files<div></div>

[john_stockdale2]

The excerpt from the new file<div></div>

[jorge_oliveira2]

Wow! That's compensating development!

 

For sure, this film has changed a lot.

[nicholas_t.]

Jorge, perhaps so, easy enough for someone to do a simple test...<p>

I would, but like I said, we don't have access to the new films here in good ol' Nu Zeal'...<p>

Best, Nicholas

[robert_davis2]

I thought only the 400 was "new". Agfa always had a range of times for these films depending on the contrast you wanted. A while back the pdf they had that included all the times disappeared from the Agfa website. The disappearance happened about the time the new 400 was released. I've got 100 feet of the 100 I picked last month. Doesn't say new on it. I've also got a bunch of 120 nothing new on that either. I'm looking at the current PDF now and it claims a new generation of 400 but doesn't mention anything about the 100.

 

Okay found a new pdf on agfa developers. You don't say what contrast you're looking for but they give times ranging from 4-6 minutes at 1:25 in the rotary section. They only give the 0.65 number for small tanks. But this one hasn't been updated I guess. Dated 05/2002.

[jorge_oliveira2]

Nicholas

 

Finding Agfa B&W over here is just like finding chicken teeth...

[nicholas_t.]

Jorge, my friend, we got lotsa of Agfa film, so much of it in fact that they won't bring in the new stuff... almost as much of that film here as there are sheep... ;-))<br>

Cheap too, not as cheap as that Forte stuff you were looking at before, but at 5 bucks NZ a roll (24exp 400 and 120), it is almost half as expensive as Ilford and Kodak... and I like it too, esp 100, the 400 is good in some devs, but not so flash in others. APX 400 is good in Gainer and great in the P-aminophenol/Vitamin C version.

[lex_jenkins]

I just reordered a bunch of APX 100. Be interesting to see if it's changed since last year. Dunno if I'll have a chance to try it out 'til next month, tho'. Got other projects lined up that'll take the rest of August.

[nicholas_t.]

Lex, I've been using the new packeted A_P_X___1_0_0 for awhile now, proll'y developed 15 rolls of 120 of the new stuff.<br>

No difference noted; no test done either. :^)

[chris_waller]

I shot a roll of APX 100 a few weeks ago rating at 50 ASA and devving in Rodinal 1:50, 20 C, 10 minutes. That's for a condenser head. I don't know what gamma they're aiming for but 10 minutes sounds too long to my mind.

[gareth_harper]

I read a while back in AP that the Agfa films had been re-hashed. If I remember correctly basically the emulsion is more robust but the films characteristics remain exactly the same, except that is for the dev times.

[eric rose]

While we are on the topic of APX 100, does anyone have developing times for PyroCat-HD??

[john_stockdale2]

I have not seen or heard of any change with APX 100. The notification about APX 400 is clearly marked on the box and at least one Agfa pdf (see above). I must admit the mixture of old and new pdfs on Agfa's web site is pretty confusing unless you're very careful.

 

The new APX400 box for 35mm says "Achtung"...."new developing times inside". Inside there is a cut-down set of developing times. Also, the film speed is in a green rectangle. The old version had no green on the box.

[mrbob]

Just yesterday I picked up at B & H 3 - 120 rolls of APX 400 for the first time. Now after reading this thread I discover that any testing I do will be moot as I turns out that I was given the old stuff: emulsion number 255 and not >= 260.

 

Went to www.agfa.com and found there is an even newer revision of the data sheet as of 7/2003 it's the 4th edition designated F-PF-E4.

 

Nicholas Twist: What time @ 68 deg. F are you using for Gainer's Rodinal + asocorbate developer. I assume you are using Rodinal, sodium ascorbate (or isoascorbate) and borax in your formula.

 

Bob Wersan

[nicholas_t.]

> Nicholas Twist: What time @ 68 deg. F are you using for Gainer's<br>

> Rodinal + asocorbate developer. I assume you are using Rodinal,<br>

> sodium ascorbate (or isoascorbate) and borax in your formula.<br>

> Bob Wersan

<p>

Bob, hi, in my previous post I was talking about the actual Gainer formulas and not the additives. Gainer Phenidone/Vitamin C is the most common formula, a variation of it can be found <a href="http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/VitC/vitc.html">here</a>, but one that isn't used as much (I am guessing) is the actual p-Aminophenol formula which is made up as an ultra-concentrated stock solution and is diluted much in the same way as Rodinal is.<p>

Regarding the ascorbate additive, it is really trial and guess-work. I can give you some starting times (you will need to prabably change these) of around 8mins or 9mins with the ascorbate additive at 1:50 @ 20C with a minutes initial agitation and 7 secs every min thereafter. Or 10 or 11 mins with some borax added.<p>

So, what regarding APX 400's performance in either of these developers is really a question of preference. My preference is for the Gainer p-Aminophenol developer, or perhaps the Gainer Phenidone. I find the asorbate additive produces a touch too much fog, perhaps this can be alleviated with the borax added.